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To: PIF

OR, perhaps you want to argue against my statement that Islam was created only in the 8th century and yeah, I’m going to say it - “Mohammed didn’t exist, he was an 8th century fabrication”

Yes, that is a controversial argument and one I’ve come to only about 10 years ago - and let me try and persuade you about it.

The Arab conquests HAPPENED - we know that for a fact.

The Arabs conquered a HIGHLY LITERATE SOCIETY - the Egyptians, Syriacs, Levantines, Mesopotamians wrote profusely. They also carved a lot of their thoughts.

Yet NONE, NOT A SINGLE inscription or writing in the 640s to 750s mentions “Muhammad”, “Islam”, “Quran”. The conquered people call the conquerors “Saracens”, and don’t consider them a different religion.

Even more so - the Muslim rulers issue coins with the Christian cross on them, and don’t use Muslim terms.

I especially like the Patricia Crone/Michael Cook Hagarism, Robert Spencer’s views and Tom hollands.

Tom Holland in particular, he argues Islam arose in a contested border region between Byzantines/Persians; traditional Mecca/Medina narrative is mythic, with religious solidification under Umayyads (e.g., Dome of the Rock, 691 CE).

https://vridar.org/2015/03/26/did-muhammad-exist-a-revisionist-look-at-islams-origins/;


109 posted on 12/11/2025 6:29:18 AM PST by Cronos
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To: Cronos

Yeah I’m aware of all of those particulars - but they are beside the point and not worth arguing over.


110 posted on 12/11/2025 9:49:27 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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