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To: BroJoeK; kiryandil; Kazan; McGruff
In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled ADDRESSING THREATS TO THE UNITED STATES BY THE GOVERNMENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION, BroJoeK wrote:
quoting BJK: "14:1 ratio of Russians to Ukrainians killed YTD.”

McGruff : "If you believe that I have a bridge to Crimea I’ll sell you.
The opposite is more likely true."

It doesn't matter what I believe -- several organizations publish their estimates of casualties and all except Russian propaganda correlate to Ukrainian estimates, so take your pick of any of them.

It does matter a lot what Pres. Trump believes, and my numbers above are his, published on Truth Social.
So, if you have a bridge to sell, you might want to talk it over with Pres. Trump.

If you want a logical explanation of that 14:1 ratio, it's this:

  • 3.5:1 overall casualty ratio, Russian to Ukrainian soldiers.
    This is combined killed, wounded and missing and reflects Russia's "meat wave" assaults against dug-in Ukrainian defensive positions.
  • 4:1 Russian wounded who die for every Ukrainian who dies from wounds.
    Also reflecting Russia's "meat wave" assault tactics, it shows superior Ukrainian medical services, along with Ukraine's understanding that, unlike Russians, they cannot afford to lose lives that might otherwise be saved.
    Ukraine's overall wounded-to-killed ratio of ~9:1 is comparable to the US in Afghanistan at 11:1. 
  • 3.5 X 4 = 14:1
Here's Trump's Truth Social post:"Truth Details
2844 replies

Avatar
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

I have just been informed that almost 20,000 Russian soldiers died this month in the ridiculous War with Ukraine.
Russia has lost 112,500 soldiers since the beginning of the year.
That is a lot of unnecessary DEATH!
Ukraine, however, has also suffered greatly.
They have lost approximately 8,000 soldiers since January 1, 2025, and that number does not include their missing.
Ukraine has also lost civilians, but in smaller numbers, as Russian rockets crash into Kyiv, and other Ukrainian locales.
This is a War that should have never happened — This is Biden’s War, not “TRUMP’s.”
I’m just here to see if I can stop it!

6.16k
ReTruths
26.2k Likes
Aug 01, 2025, 11:41 AM"

Do you understand that as a diplomat, which is Trump's current role as he tries to negotiate peace, he is expected to adhere at least roughly to the numbers GIVEN HIM BY ZELENSKY????

Recall that Ukraine won't let news crews in because it's largely an intel war NATO/CIA forces are abundant, and because they have been trying to hide the fact that from the start, 'little Ukraine' has been losing badly to Russia. Ukraine's death toll is appallingly higher than it ever admits.

You also 'forgot' to note that the 'lost 8,000' soldiers in Trump's post does 'not include their missing.' Sadly, Ukraine has a poor reporting and recovery rate. Instead of reported the dead, a significant portion are declared missing. Part of it is intentional (intentionally not reporting what happens to soldiers) and in the worst case scenario, that can occur when soldiers too wounded to receive adequate treatment are harvested for organs instead (According to Arch Bishop Abbe Viganos. and he bases his reports on aid organizations). 

So Ukraine lies to keep its numbers down, doesn't always collect the wounded for burial, and in fact has fewer soldiers left on the battlefield to be injured. There are sections of the Ukrainian front line which are entirely unmanned.

Russia has extensive fighting aircraft and pilots to fly them. Ukraine does not. The F-16's given to Ukraine require pristine runways and air defense when on the ground - Ukraine's is inadequate. Ukraine has said so for quite some time - they need more air defenses.

Russia's missiles and missile launchers (aircraft or ground) are more modern and directly controlled (russia provides coordinates) whereas Ukraine's coordinates have to be relayed from NATO. The US gives Ukraine HIMARS and buys Soviet era launchers to launch them.

NATO/Ukraine is bleeding out. Both sides are losing 'too many' as NATO/Zelensky hold on to their chance at drawing the US into the war to start WWIII. Russia is fighting all of NATO (weapons, technology, command/control and soldiers) and NATO employs drones, so it makes sense to me that Russia's numbers are likely accurately reported.

~~~

Logically it's ridiculous to assert that Zelensky's impossibly low, self-reported, or NATO estimated, losses are real. Those who beg for money from day 1 are not likely to admit their loses because they plan to continue to beg for money. They are losing and they are lying about it. Putin's are more realistic, and sadly Ukraine's numbers would likely be markedly higher than Russia's if the truth were known.

From the start, Russia had air dominance and the front lines consisted of attack from above and when Ukrainians retreated, they found their escape route mined.

Sometimes Ukrainian trolls insist that Putin's Russia has 11 time zones and it's huge compared with Ukraine. Other times the same trolls will insist Ukraine is defeating Russia or that RUssia has greater losses overall. So the propaganda fantasy here is that Ukraine's fewer soldiers are killing far more Russians. Part of the ground troops Ukraine is losing are foreign, and they don't count those. But Ukraine is running out of men - and Vice President Vance was correct to say that to Zelensky in the Oval Office. 

Russia retains enough mobility to retrieve the injured. Ukraine does not. Ukraine has been complaining for over a year that they lack adequate ammo for soldiers. Munitions access hasn't been as hard for Russia. 

Both sides are losing 'too many' and the public will draw back in horror when the truth of Ukraine's losses becomes known. 


19 posted on 08/10/2025 11:07:23 AM PDT by ransomnote (IN GOD WE TRUST)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]


To: ransomnote; kiryandil; McGruff; marcusmaximus; gleeaikin; PIF
ransomnote: "Do you understand that as a diplomat, which is Trump's current role as he tries to negotiate peace, he is expected to adhere at least roughly to the numbers GIVEN HIM BY ZELENSKY????"

Not at all.
I think Pres. Trump is 100% capable of deciding for himself which set of numbers he will use in any given circumstance.
The fact that Trump chose numbers which highlight Ukraine's superior defensive tactics only means they emphasize his point that Russia should be seeking peace.

I have no doubt that Trump is getting numbers from many sources, including the DNI, CIA, DIA & NSA, and that all of these reflect what is generally known about the war in Ukraine, namely that Russians are squandering massive numbers of men doing insane "meat wave" assaults against fixed Ukrainian positions, resulting in very lopsided Russian-to-Ukrainian casualty figures.

ransomnote: "Recall that Ukraine won't let news crews in because it's largely an intel war NATO/CIA forces are abundant, and because they have been trying to hide the fact that from the start, 'little Ukraine' has been losing badly to Russia.
Ukraine's death toll is appallingly higher than it ever admits."

Absolutely, that is what Russian propaganda claims, but there is no non-Russian source anywhere to confirm it.

The truth is that Ukrainians pushed Russian forces out of about half of what they took in February & March, 2022, and Ukrainians have held their own against massive Russian "meat wave" assaults ever since.
In 2025, Russians have gained about 5 square miles per day, at a cost of over 200 Russian casualties per square mile.

Only in the minds of insane Russian propagandists is that "winning".

ransomnote: "You also 'forgot' to note that the 'lost 8,000' soldiers in Trump's post does 'not include their missing.'
Sadly, Ukraine has a poor reporting and recovery rate.
Instead of reported the dead, a significant portion are declared missing.
Part of it is intentional (intentionally not reporting what happens to soldiers) and in the worst case scenario, that can occur when soldiers too wounded to receive adequate treatment are harvested for organs instead (According to Arch Bishop Abbe Viganos. and he bases his reports on aid organizations). "

Several point are important here:

  1. There are no reports on the numbers of new missing Ukrainian soldiers in 2025, though past missing numbers often came in at about half the numbers reported killed.

  2. If the 50% ratio holds -- the number missing to killed -- it suggests 2025 year-to-date missing of: 8,000 killed X 50% = ~4,000 missing.

  3. This further suggests that Russia's offers to return 6,000 bodies of alleged Ukrainian missing soldiers could reflect actual Ukrainian casualties.

  4. However, to date, only 15% of the 4,800 bodies returned by Russia were identified as Ukrainian soldiers.
    The remainder were Russian soldiers, or unidentifiable.
    If that 15% ratio holds for all 4,800 bodies, then the number of new Ukrainian 2025 "missing" may be less than 1,000.

  5. As for your Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò -- I have no idea what's going on there except that he's become a willing spokesman for Russian propaganda & disinformation.
    I do know Vigano was recently excommunicated and will be defrocked if he continues to serve Mass.

    Why?
    Some of it is Vigano's entirely legitimate concern over the rise of secular globalism and corruptions in traditional Western liberalism.
    But how he, or anyone else, could be so delusional as to fantasize that Russia's mad-Vlad the Invader represents something other than pure evil, is beyond rational understanding.

ransomnote: "So Ukraine lies to keep its numbers down, doesn't always collect the wounded for burial, and in fact has fewer soldiers left on the battlefield to be injured.
There are sections of the Ukrainian front line which are entirely unmanned."

The only true part of that is fewer Ukrainians occupying their most forward outposts.
The vast majority of Ukrainian forces are miles behind the frontlines manning artillery, launching FPV drones and waiting in armored vehicles to ambush Russian "meat wave" assaults.

ransomnote: "Russia has extensive fighting aircraft and pilots to fly them.
Ukraine does not.
The F-16's given to Ukraine require pristine runways and air defense when on the ground - Ukraine's is inadequate.
Ukraine has said so for quite some time - they need more air defenses."

A Ukrainian F-16 was recently credited with shooting down a Russian SU-35S, at long range.
Overall, Russians have lost hundreds of military aircraft, both in the air and on the ground.

So far, Ukraine has received about 16 of the 85 F-16s promised, and of those 16, 3 were lost, one of those shot down by Russians.
It's true that F-16 require special runways and maintenance and so represent a considerable effort by Ukraine to keep flying.
The three lost F-16s illustrate what happens when Ukrainian pilots and ground crews are not at the very top of their games.

As for Ukraine's air defenses, their problem is not just a shortage of missiles & ammunition, but also that it makes no sense to shoot down $10,000 drones with $1 million dollar interceptors.
That is an issue which every military in the world, including ours, is working to deal with.

ransomnote: "Russia's missiles and missile launchers (aircraft or ground) are more modern and directly controlled (russia provides coordinates) whereas Ukraine's coordinates have to be relayed from NATO.
The US gives Ukraine HIMARS and buys Soviet era launchers to launch them."

There's nothing very modern about old Soviet S-300 and newer Russian S-400 air defense systems -- and Ukrainians have destroyed dozens.

Overall, Russia's daily assaults on Ukraine include:

  1. Tens of thousands of artillery shells
  2. Hundreds of drones
  3. Hundreds of glide bombs
  4. A dozen missiles of all types
All of that to produce around 30 Ukrainian KIAs and another 300 wounded or missing, per day.
Of Ukraine's wounded, about half return to service and most of the rest will find defense related employment.
About 5% of Ukraine's wounded are so severe (i.e., spinal & brain injuries, multiple amputations, etc.) that they can only be cared for.

Point is: Russia's massive expenditures in men, weapons and ammunition accomplish relatively little in terms of Ukrainian lands occupied and/or forces degraded.

ransomnote: "NATO/Ukraine is bleeding out.
Both sides are losing 'too many' as NATO/Zelensky hold on to their chance at drawing the US into the war to start WWIII.
Russia is fighting all of NATO (weapons, technology, command/control and soldiers) and NATO employs drones, so it makes sense to me that Russia's numbers are likely accurately reported."

All of that is 100% Russian propaganda nonsense, which no sane person should believe, much less seriously repeat.
The truth is the opposite:

  1. Russia is bleeding out, for no measurable gains in Ukrainian territory or casualties.

  2. No Ukrainian or European believes they will draw American "boots on the ground" into Ukraine.
    They do, however, well understand that they can purchase all the weapons they need from the United States.
    Europeans also expect that they will play a role as peacekeepers in whatever cease-fire peace deal Pres. Trump can arrange.

  3. Not just Russia, but also North Korea, Iran and China are fighting in Ukraine against Ukrainians armed & supported by dozens of Western-style democracies from Japan, South Korea & Australia to Europe and North America.

  4. Finally, if any word that originates in Russian propaganda "makes sense to me", it only means that your brain has been fried in bull cr*p and you need to make serious efforts to wash all that nonsense away, so you can think straight again.
ransomnote: "Logically it's ridiculous to assert that Zelensky's impossibly low, self-reported, or NATO estimated, losses are real.
Those who beg for money from day 1 are not likely to admit their loses because they plan to continue to beg for money.
They are losing and they are lying about it.
Putin's are more realistic, and sadly Ukraine's numbers would likely be markedly higher than Russia's if the truth were known."

What you're calling "logical" is just luny-talk & slavish devotion to Russian propaganda nonsense.
It does not stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.
What's verifiable and confirmed by all Western sources is that Russians take around 5 square miles per day at a cost of over 1,000 casualties and over 100 military vehicles & weapons systems destroyed daily.

ransomnote: "Sometimes Ukrainian trolls insist that Putin's Russia has 11 time zones and it's huge compared with Ukraine.
Other times the same trolls will insist Ukraine is defeating Russia or that RUssia has greater losses overall.
So the propaganda fantasy here is that Ukraine's fewer soldiers are killing far more Russians.
Part of the ground troops Ukraine is losing are foreign, and they don't count those.
But Ukraine is running out of men - and Vice President Vance was correct to say that to Zelensky in the Oval Office."

All of the non-Russian reports we have say that Ukrainians are fighting a defensive war against overwhelming numbers of Russian & Axis of Evil "meat wave" assault troops, artillery and drones, with the result of inflicting massively more Russan casualties than Ukrainians themselves suffer.
The only source contradicting that is Russian propaganda, but what sane person would ever believe Russia's government?

ransomnote: "Russia retains enough mobility to retrieve the injured.
Ukraine does not.
Ukraine has been complaining for over a year that they lack adequate ammo for soldiers.
Munitions access hasn't been as hard for Russia."

There's no doubt that Russians can access stockpiles of more ammunition than Ukrainians have, but these have not produced correspondingly more Ukrainian casualties.
The numbers we have show Russian casualties at several times Ukraine's and Russia's ratio of wounded to killed much smaller than Ukraine's, suggesting Russians are not as capable of caring for their wounded as are Ukrainians.

ransomnote: "Both sides are losing and the public will draw back in horror when the truth of Ukraine's losses becomes known. "

Of course, it's horrible that losses are "too many" -- far too many on both sides, but we know the truth of it already:

  1. That Russians have lost over 1,000,000 casualties and over 100,000 military vehicles (tanks, APCs, artillery, trucks, etc.) for the gain of very little new Ukrainian territory.

  2. That Ukrainians have lost fewer -- around 400,000 casualties -- though proportionately even more, compared to Ukraine's population.
    However, there appears to be a huge difference in the numbers of Ukrainian wounded who can return to military service or find employment in Ukrainian industry & service jobs.
So, overall, Russians killed in action appear to outnumber Ukrainians, as Pres. Trump reported, year to date: 112,500 Russians to 8,000 Ukrainians, or roughly 14 to one.
Even if you add in a few thousand Ukrainian missing, you still get 10:1 Russians to Ukrainians killed.

Those are the facts as best we can know them.
You should reject Russian propaganda out of hand as being unworthy of serious consideration, because it is only ever intended to promote evil.

25 posted on 08/11/2025 10:12:59 AM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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