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To: marcusmaximus

Tsar Paul was the first European head of state to recognize the independence of the U.S., but Russia hardly gave it any support. Without the support of the French, the British would have ended the American rebellion in due course. Americans owed the French for their independence, not the Russians.


2 posted on 07/04/2025 3:58:34 AM PDT by Dr. Franklin ("A republic, if you can keep it." )
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To: Dr. Franklin

Ro*Cham*Beau!

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/80201/why-do-people-call-rock-paper-scissors-roshambo


4 posted on 07/04/2025 4:02:48 AM PDT by one guy in new jersey
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To: Dr. Franklin

Agree, the French were the big players in our revolution. Putin knows Russian history about as well as anyone alive (and probably knows US history better than 90% of Americans, but then that’s not saying much), so I think Putin’s trolling a bit here...but no idea why.


14 posted on 07/04/2025 4:48:43 AM PDT by BobL
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To: Dr. Franklin; anyone

A family member told me Russia actually helped the USA (North) in the civil war.

That GB was thinking of intervening (with France) on the side of the Confederacy but Russia warned if they did it would join the north.

GROK says the rumor is true.

Putin speaks truthfully.


21 posted on 07/04/2025 5:08:59 AM PDT by Phoenix8
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To: Dr. Franklin

Dr. Frank, do you have a source (other than Putin) for Russia being the first country to recognize the U.S.?

According to this source, Morocco was the first to de facto recognize the U.S., and France was the first to fully recognize the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_date_of_recognition_of_the_United_States


34 posted on 07/04/2025 6:46:32 AM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: Dr. Franklin

Actually Poland, the country that Russia took over in 1795, gave the US a lot more help with Kościuszko and Pulaski.


36 posted on 07/04/2025 6:54:49 AM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Dr. Franklin; marcusmaximus; one guy in new jersey; BobL; Phoenix8; Redmen4ever; dfwgator; ...
Dr. Franklin: "Tsar Paul was the first European head of state to recognize the independence of the U.S."

That's pure nonsense.
In fact, Tsar Paul was a babbling idiot who'd make Joe Biden look intelligent.
Paul took power in 1796, after 19 other countries had already recognized the USA.
Paul had no clue what he was doing and certainly no interest in recognizing the USA.

Paul's mother, Catherine the Great, was much different, but she refused to accept the US delegation to St. Petersburg in 1780, a delegation which had included the very young future US President, John Quincy Adams.

So Russia was not the first to recognize the US, it was the 24th, long after most of Europe and the world had already done so.
Here's the whole list:

  1. 1777 Morocco Sultan Mohammed III offered protection and port access to U.S. ships—first formal recognition by a foreign power2
  2. 1778 France Treaty of Amity and Commerce signed on Feb 6; France became the first major power to recognize the U.S.2
  3. 1782 Netherlands Accepted John Adams as U.S. Minister; hosted the first American embassy in The Hague
  4. 1783 Portugal Recognition followed by diplomatic relations in 1791
  5. 1783 Spain Official recognition on Feb 20; had earlier informal correspondence acknowledging U.S. sovereignty2
  6. 1783 Sweden Treaty of Amity and Commerce signed on April 32
  7. 1783 Ragusa (Dubrovnik) De facto recognition; not a major power but notable for early acknowledgment
  8. 1783 Venice Recognition in August; limited diplomatic engagement
  9. 1783 Great Britain Treaty of Paris signed on Sept 3, formally ending the war and recognizing U.S. independence
  10. 1784 Papal States Recognition via diplomatic correspondence
  11. 1785 Prussia Treaty of Amity and Commerce signed on Sept 18
  12. 1788 Mysore (India) Tipu Sultan’s embassy acknowledged by Thomas Jefferson
  13. 1790 Hamburg Recognition via trade and consular relations
  14. 1791 Genoa Diplomatic ties established
  15. 1792 Denmark-Norway Commercial treaty signed on June 9
  16. 1794 Bremen Recognition through trade agreements
  17. 1794 Tuscany Recognition sometime between May 29 and Dec 7
  18. 1795 Tunisia Treaty signed on March 28
  19. 1795 Algeria Treaty signed on Sept 5
  20. 1796 Naples Recognition via treaty on May 20
  21. 1796 Tripolitania Treaty signed on Nov 4
  22. 1797 Austria Month unspecified; recognition occurred during this year
  23. 1802 Piedmont-Sardinia Recognition established; details limited
  24. 1803 Russian Empire Tsar Alexander I formal recognition on Oct 28 by accepting Levett Harris as U.S. consul
Dr. Franklin: "Without the support of the French, the British would have ended the American rebellion in due course.
Americans owed the French for their independence, not the Russians."

True enough, but it wasn't only the French.
Spain and the Netherlands also provided significant aid in both military hardware and money.

Russian participation was indirect at best and focused on securing Russian interests, which coincidentally also supported US interests, by distracting British attention & forces away from America.

88 posted on 07/09/2025 8:32:05 AM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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