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MASSIE: This is not Constitutional
X ^ | June 21 | Rep. Thomas Massie

Posted on 06/21/2025 5:52:16 PM PDT by RandFan

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To: RandFan
Some would go berserk if this was Obama doing it

I seem to recall Clinton ordering a missile strike on a pharmaceutical plant in the Sudan back in August, 1998.....Operation Infinite Reach.

No beserkness occurred....

241 posted on 06/22/2025 2:50:19 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: RandFan
The AUMF Is too broad and does not override the constitution and DoW powers

What precedent exists to establish the legal criteria to claim an AUMF is unconstitutional? You can't point to any precedent because there aren't any, and it's farfetched to think that SCOTUS would even touch such a case. It would say it's a political matter because Congress can rescind the AUMF at any time if it disagrees. Another baseless libertardian argument.

Iran is not a threat to the US. Has never attacked or invaded its shores as per what is generally meant and how the framers would have seen it in the 1770s

Factually challenged: Iran has been kidnapping and killing Americans directly or indirectly since 1979. The notion that the President must wait until US territory is directly attacked is another Constitutional fantasy originating in the 60s. TR threatened to raze Casablanca to the ground because a single American was kidnapped.

As far as the Framers go, they had a much better understanding of the realities of power politics based on English history and their own experience of war and the threat of being hanged during the Revolution than just about any current legal theorists. Being quite familiar with the abuse of military authority, if they had wanted such minute restrictions on Presidential military powers, they would have made them explicit.

The Founders, contrary to the belief of many, were not libertarians. Like the left, libertarians like to dress up their own baseless opinions as Constitutional principles as a way to impose the opinions of a small minority on the whole country without passing laws, winning elections, or passing Constitutional amendments.

242 posted on 06/22/2025 2:59:26 AM PDT by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: pierrem15

? You don’t get more explicit than only “Congress” can declare war and fund it !

This is what they had in mind during that period

Military action to repel an invasion of the United States. An Actual threat not an imagined one thousands of miles away ?

They wanted the Congress to debate and vote on issues like this they did not empower= the president with King like powers (I now hate this term/argument since the left has stolen it but you get my point )

I appreciate you feel strongly on this and making thoughtful points even though I think they’re wrong

Also the AUMF is like a resolution it’s not a serious document in my eyes and its been in tact for over 24 years. They can and do claim anything using it. I think it’s silly myself and should not be used as justification.


243 posted on 06/22/2025 3:08:10 AM PDT by RandFan
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To: Rockingham

None of this overrides the constitution

Donald did not even bother notifying Congress. Even GWB did that

It’s a serious concern. He’s assuming an imperial approach to the presidency on war powers. Some Freepers are short sighted this is a massive expansion of war making powers right now


244 posted on 06/22/2025 3:13:35 AM PDT by RandFan
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To: Rockingham

You won’t like it when a Dem president uses this newly assumed approach, to use bombers and the army to take out his or her enemies or embroil the country in a serious war without even the courtesy of Congress

This is unprecedented and missed among all the war fever here


245 posted on 06/22/2025 3:15:59 AM PDT by RandFan
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To: Jonty30
Per Wikipedia:
In 2015, Massie was the sole member of the House to vote "present" on the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, also known as the Iran nuclear agreement, citing Constitutional concerns that the treaties are not ratified by the House of Representatives and that he had no authority to vote for or against the nuclear deal.[50][51] In November 2016, he voted against an extension of U.S. sanctions against Iran, the only member of the House to do so.[52]
Per John Kerry, who would likely agree with Massie, re:Iran:
Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) "tested positive for being an asshole" after he opposed the Senate-passed coronavirus stimulus bill...

246 posted on 06/22/2025 3:18:11 AM PDT by gundog (The ends justify the mean tweets. )
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To: RandFan
Basically over two centuries of Presidential actions belie the claims you are making about Presidential authority. Given English political history, the Founder's primary concern about a Declaration of War was always its -domestic- legal effects not foreign wars.

As far AUMFs go, SCOTUS has already ruled they are the legal equivalent of a DOW. The fact that Congress may have acted idiotically or corruptly does not affect that, because any government can always act idiotically or corruptly.

247 posted on 06/22/2025 3:27:32 AM PDT by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: Rockingham
I will definitely check those out later.

For me, the first step in analyzing an issue like this dispassionately is to consider the exact opposite scenario. In this case, I would envision a scenario where an Obama administration launched military strikes against Israel in response to Israel’s attack on Iran.

What can say with 100% certainty is that almost every Freeper on threads like this who insists that the President has the authority to conduct military operations against a foreign nation without Congressional approval would be saying the exact opposite thing in my hypothetical scenario.

If you have any doubts about that, just go back to the discussions about January 6th and see what clowns like Mark Levin had to say about the authority of VP Pence to unilaterally reject electoral votes. Then go back to 2016 and see what he was saying when it was VP Biden who was presiding over the joint session of Congress and Hillary Clinton was whining about election fraud.

248 posted on 06/22/2025 3:28:45 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("The gallows wait for martyrs whose papers are in order.")
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To: RandFan

Trump had leading GOP members briefed in advance but left the Democrats in the dark. And guess what — there were no leaks. Considering that the lives of American service personnel were at risk, leaving the Dems out of the loop is hard to argue with.


249 posted on 06/22/2025 4:11:14 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: RandFan

Read the two Congressional Research Service papers I cited in post 240. Controversies over Presidential use of war powers provide many precedents.


250 posted on 06/22/2025 4:17:31 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Alberta's Child

In the event, such projected risks simply do not happen.


251 posted on 06/22/2025 4:19:53 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: RandFan
Some would go berserk if this was Obama doing it ...

Obama’s Final Drone Strike Data - https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4324570/posts

Meanwhile,

"The Supreme National Security Council of Iran announces: anyone recruited by the Israeli Mossad must report by June 22 to one of the Basij bases, police stations, or the Ministry of Intelligence headquarters. They are to hand over their drones, UAVs, and equipment and in doing so may receive an Islamic pardon and return to the embrace of the nation."

252 posted on 06/22/2025 4:29:06 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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To: daniel1212
The Supreme National Security Council of Iran announces: anyone recruited by the Israeli Mossad must report by June 22 to one of the Basij bases, police stations, or the Ministry of Intelligence headquarters. They are to hand over their drones, UAVs, and equipment and in doing so may receive an Islamic pardon and return to the embrace of the nation

I predict turnout will be light.

253 posted on 06/22/2025 4:30:54 AM PDT by johniegrad
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To: RandFan

Obama and Biden and Clinton and Reagan and Bush have all “done” this.

Like it or not, I am hard pressed to think of a single president in my lifetime who hasn’t acted unilaterally militarily at some point during their terms.

War Power’s act allows it. Have to explain to Congress in 48 hours actions taken and can only have troops deployed for 60-90 days without congressional approval.

Those calling this unconstitutional need to explain why, and they also explain why other identical actions taken by newly every president for the last 50 years were okay.. since they weren’t complaining about them.


254 posted on 06/22/2025 4:46:18 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: RandFan

Yes....ALL ON THE STUPID ANTI-AMERICAN LEFT!


255 posted on 06/22/2025 5:02:52 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience..H)
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To: GreyFriar

And a bomb damaged our ISREALI EMBASSY!! A HUGE NO NO!


256 posted on 06/22/2025 5:03:42 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience..H)
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To: Jonty30

I believe that some Pubbies DIDN’T VOTE.....NV


257 posted on 06/22/2025 5:06:11 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience..H)
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To: RandFan

Not me.


258 posted on 06/22/2025 5:17:01 AM PDT by central_va (The I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn...)
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To: cowboyusa

What ever happened to the zot hammer?


259 posted on 06/22/2025 5:17:53 AM PDT by central_va (The I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn...)
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To: escapefromboston
On January 23, 2009, just three days into his presidency, President Obama authorized his first kinetic military action: two drone strikes, three hours apart, in Waziristan, Pakistan, that killed as many as twenty civilians. Two terms and 540 strikes later, Obama leaves the White House after having vastly expanding and normalizing the use of armed drones for counterterrorism and close air support operations in non-battlefield settings—namely Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia - https://www.cfr.org/blog/obamas-final-drone-strike-data
260 posted on 06/22/2025 5:24:37 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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