[BroJoeK]

quoting BJK: "That whole argument is ridiculous nonsense since, among other reasons, the very words "racist" and "white supremacists" were not used in those days."

DiogenesLamp: "That is an irrelevant argument.
Whether they were used in those days or not, in the modern understanding of those words, Lincoln and everyone else were "Racists" and "White Supremacists." "

Hillary Clinton's "basket of deplorables":

Sure, but you yourself can easily see how ridiculous your argument is if you simply realize that according to Hillary's Progressive Woke Democrats' political agenda, every one of us is "racist", "white supremacist", "sexist", "misogynist", "homophobe", "Islamophobe", "trans-phobic", plus, in Hillary's words, "you name it".

Surely you understand how ridiculous it is to make such claims against us, based on standards that nobody here recognizes as legitimate?
The same applies to Lincoln and all of those of his era.

You simply cannot go back in time to impose our standards, much less Hillary's Progressive "woke" standards, on historical figures.
No human being could pass such tests.

DiogenesLamp: "What was discussed were various plans for keeping the whites and the blacks separate.
Lincoln had numerous discussions on methods to get the blacks out of the country.
He even implemented some of the plans to do it, which turned out to be a disaster for all involved.
I think it was attempted on the Mosquito Coast of South America.
The vast majority died."

Sure, because it was logically assumed that, since Africans were kidnapped from their homes they would want to return, if not directly to Africa, then to somewhere similar in climate.

Today, around 150,000 Liberians (Africa) trace their ancestry to the tens of thousands of "recolonized" freed American slaves.

Yes, it's true that large numbers died within a few years after reaching their new "homeland", but that was also true of early European settlers at Jamestown, Plymouth & other early colonies.
Also, not all of those freed-slaves were young and healthy.
At least some were old and nearing the ends of their natural lives anyway.

Finally, all of the freed-slaves "recolonized" to Africa and elsewhere were volunteers, and could have chosen not to go.

DiogenesLamp: "According to Union General Benjamin Butler, the very day Lincoln was assassinated, he was discussing another plan to get blacks out of the country."

First, I don't believe Butler on this.
Second, the American Colonization Society (ACS) did not disband until 1964.
So, numbers of African Americans recolonizing to Liberia continued well after the Civil War and into the late 19th century.

Even today, there are hundreds of thousands of African American expatriates in countries around the world, tens of thousands of those in various African countries such as Liberia, Ghana, Nigeria, South Africa and Senegal.

Every year some thousands of African American expatriates pass away naturally in their new homes abroad.

My point is simply that none of this has anything to do with Lincoln or "racism" or "forced deportations".
All of it is voluntary and for reasons that are likely quite similar to those of some 9 million total US expatriates abroad.

quoting BJK: "By 1865, Lincoln had come to support not only abolition but also full citizenship for freed slaves."

DiogenesLamp: "Because they were guaranteed to vote for him and his party.
This was just a cynical political usage of them.
They were useful to him, but in reality, he wanted them out of the country."

The Confederate view of "Ape" Lincoln in 1863:

Do you realize how insane you sound??
First you condemn Lincoln for encouraging freed-slaves to settle overseas.
Then you condemn Lincoln for trying to make freed-slaves lives better here in the US.

That means your brain is literally fried in anti-Lincoln b*ll sh*t, and you just can't break free of it, any more than Democrats today can shed their TDS -- Trump Derangement Syndrome.
You have LDS -- no, not Latter Day Saints, Lincoln Derangement Syndrome.

DiogenesLamp: "You know i'm right about this, you just hate to admit it."

You know you can't stop babbling anti-Lincoln nonsense.
I think its a form of mental illness, similar to TDS, but I've never figured out how a normal person -- meaning somebody who wasn't born into it -- can get such a disease.

[DiogenesLamp]

You simply cannot go back in time to impose our standards, much less Hillary's Progressive "woke" standards, on historical figures. No human being could pass such tests.

When everyone is a racist/white supremacist, you can't judge people for being racist and white Supremacist?

I don't grasp your point. In those days, virtually *EVERYONE* was both a Racist, *AND* a "White Supremacist".

They all considered blacks inferior, and they wanted blacks and whites separated. They even passed laws to insure the two groups remained as far apart as was practicable.

Lincoln wanted separation. Here is an excerpt from his discussion of the issue with some black leaders that came to the whitehouse in 1862.

You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffer very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffer from your presence. In a word we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated. You here are freemen I suppose.

I've read many examples of Lincoln specifically saying that blacks need to be kept out of white societies. I remember reading in one debate that he believed getting rid of slavery would be the best way to do this.

This is from the debate, but it isn't the one I was looking for.

" I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife."

Lincoln was incredibly witty.

But he was absolutely a white supremacists and a racist.