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Tell It Right: "But that doesn't change the simple fact that the federal govt has no right to force a state to stay within the nation.
In fact, if it was right to help Texas secede from the new nation of Mexico without having to list grievances, wasn't it justified for states like Louisiana to declare in their declaration that they were seceding --- with no reasons for the WHY, just that they where?"

Obviously, if you believe that only "might makes right", then nothing else matters and all such debates are superfluous.
However, if we believe that our Founding Documents are important and valid, especially as regards the legal compact that binds us together as Americans, then we have to confess that words have meanings as intended by those who wrote them, first and foremost.

That's sort of what the word "conservative" means -- we're trying to preserve the best of our intellectual inheritance, which means we have to begin by acknowledging exactly what those words say and meant to our Founders.

So, what you did in your post #101 was concoct some nonsensical explanation from your own imagination, not related anything our Founders ever said or wrote down.

The truth of this matter remains as I've stated it: no Founder ever proposed or supported an unlimited "right of secession" at pleasure.
All saw that as simply:

Treason
Insurrection
Domestic Violence
Rebellion

Those are spelled out as crimes in the Constitution, are punishable as determined by laws of Congress and may be addressed with presidential pardons.

Consider: several Founders signed both the 1776 Declaration and the 1787 Constitution, and others who signed one but not the other -- i.e., Washington & Adams -- fully supported both.
My point is, they did not think the two documents contradictory, and none of them ever suggested an unlimited "right of secession" at pleasure.

However, if we believe that our Founding Documents are important and valid, especially as regards the legal compact that binds us together as Americans, then we have to confess that words have meanings as intended by those who wrote them, first and foremost.

I'm glad you have reverence for our founding documents. I just wish you had reverence for the Mother document which gave us our Independence from England.

It says people have an absolute right to independence for whatever reasons they see fit. The conditions which you keep trying to impose are suggestions, not requirements.