Posted on 09/08/2024 6:52:14 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Do we need to support the current population. There are 4 billion more people on the planet just in my lifetime. I think we are fine.
But what these stories really worry about is not enough young tax payers to pay for the old folks and the welfare system. You are not an ATM for the government.
So the welfare states will change how they do welfare.
You say this stuff like people and economies cannot adapt. They will adapt. Some may do better than others.
Hence the reason they push euthanasia.
“Morons on this thread completely ignorant of the economic consequences of depopulation.”
What about the smart people who don’t worry about the [long-term] consequences of depopulation?
What are the long-term consequences of depopulation?
Everyone should consider that when we take God out of our life, our schools, our churches, our government, etc., then perhaps we pay a price for our sins, our lifestyles, abortion and killing of unborn babies, etc.
God has warned us and we choose either Heaven or Hell.
Well, based on my reading of the Bible ( I assume that’s the standard you want this discussion to be based on ):
The Bible does not specifically mention single parent households as sins.
However, it does condemn fornication, which is pre-marital or extramarital sex (regardless of whether or not a pregnancy results).
The Bible considers sex outside of marriage to be sinful (1 Corinthians 6:18, Hebrews 13:4).
On the other hand, I have not read the Bible outright condemning couples choosing not to have children within a loving marriage.
The decision to have children is a personal choice that should be made within the context of a committed relationship. However, the Bible does encourage couples to have children (Psalm 127:3-5). ENCOURAGING is NOT COERCING.
An aging population doesn’t work or save. It doesnt consume as much either. It isn’t a source of innovation or investment capital. It doesn’t pay as much in taxes, so necessary government activity will be constrained. Capital shortages will drive up interest rates. How’s all that for a start?
“An aging population doesn’t work or save.”
You are describing problems that arise when there are oscillations in birth rates.
For example, you can have a lot of old people with few young to run the economy that existed when the old people were young.
A balanced population will do well regardless of its size.
Genesis 38:8-10
8And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. 9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
I do not feel like getting in a Catholic-Protestant argument, but now I see by original post there was no where else this would go.
i addressed the bible in my previous post…
But I look at South Korea with its 0.7 TFR as the epitome of loving and loyal marriages that are absolutely NOT fruitful…from a Darwinian perspective there is no way those types of marriages are a good thing.
I don’t see the example of Onan as God forcing married couples to have children.
I see the story of Onan in Genesis 38 as NOT a general prohibition against contraception, but rather a SPECIFIC judgment against Onan’s actions for disobeying God’s command to produce an heir for his brother.
I don’t see the Bible explicitly condemning the use of contraceptives ( as in THOU SHALT NOT), and therefore, their use is not inherently sinful.
Couples should be responsible for deciding when to have children and how many children to have.
And I repeat — CHILDREN are a blessing from God and I do see encouragement to have children for loving couples. But I do not see the Onan example as applicable to everyone but ONLY to Onan.
In ancient Jewish tradition, specifically according to the laws outlined in the Torah, the practice of yibbum (levirate marriage) was a key response to a situation where a man died without leaving an heir. If a man died without children, his brother was expected to marry the widow and produce offspring in the deceased brother’s name, ensuring the continuation of his lineage.
This practice is outlined in Deuteronomy 25:5-10. If the brother refused to fulfill this duty, the widow could perform a ceremony called halitzah (the release), which publicly marked the refusal. The punishment was not a physical one but rather a public humiliation. In the ceremony, the widow would remove the brother-in-law’s sandal and spit in his face, saying, “This is what is done to the man who does not build up his brother’s house.” The refusal was considered shameful, but no legal or physical punishment was imposed beyond this public disgrace.
Over time, halitzah became the preferred option in many Jewish communities over the levirate marriage itself.
The above is from chat GPT…so if God already had a defined punishment for rejecting your brothers wife, then why would there be a super punishment of death in this case. This is a critical verse that defines one of the theological differences between Protestants and Catholics.
RE: But I look at South Korea with its 0.7 TFR as the epitome of loving and loyal marriages that are absolutely NOT fruitful…from a Darwinian perspective there is no way those types of marriages are a good thing.
There are SOCIETAL consequences if more than enough people follow a certain habit. If God encourages us to be fruitful and multiply, it is best to listen and I agree with that.
There is a difference between COMMANDING you to do something and merely TOLERATING.
God may encourage certain actions and behaviors, but if these encouragements are not followed, it may still be viewed as the individual’s choice and responsibility KNOWING full well of its consequences.
In such cases, God may tolerate the failure to follow the encouraged path, but this does not necessarily imply approval of the alternative action. Instead, it may reflect God’s understanding of human free will and the consequences that may arise from one’s choices.
At 9B the planet is a long way from a population crises.
Really? Morons. I don’t think so.
RE: In ancient Jewish tradition, specifically according to the laws outlined in the Torah, the practice of yibbum (levirate marriage) was a key response to a situation where a man died without leaving an heir.
I cannot answer for the Jews, but if you are NOT a Jew, you are NOT required to follow that practice ( otherwise every Christian will be guilty of sinning when he eats food that are not kosher ). Christians are required to obey MORAL laws, but are not required to obey Sabbath ( we don’t follow the Jewish Sabbath ), and Holy days, circumcision, animal sacrifices, etc.
In Galatians 5:1-6 - Paul argues against the requirement for Christians to follow Jewish ceremonial laws, stating that Christ has set us free. He writes, “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.”
Balanced populations are steady state. Growing or shrinking ones are unbalanced.
If you have a relative few young people running the economy, their productivity will not support the needs of the population as a whole. Taxes, consumption, capital formation and investment all out of whack.
Speaking of Springfield, Ohio . . .
You miss the point that Catholics see in this scripture. There was a ceremonial jewish punishment for refusing to give your brother an heir that applied in this OT passage. God Himself gave an extra punishment (death), instead of allowing just the regular punishment, and Catholics take it to be because he spilled his seed and not because he refused to give his brother an heir.
I am hopeful that Catholics and Protestants don’t necessarily need to have identical lists of sins to come to similar conclusions on right and wrong. I am hopeful that the general directive to “go forth and multiply” would inspire both denominations of Christianity. Unfortunately, in todays culture, that does not seem to be the case.
“... their productivity will not support the needs of the population as a whole”
I feel sorry for our youngsters as they support the oldsters with medical expenses that they pay for.
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