Replies

alleged Lincoln quote:

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow..."

DiogenesLamp: "As I said when I first mentioned it, you can find the quote in "Iron Heel" written by Jack London and published in 1908.
So the quote is clearly older than 1931."

We also discussed Jack London's book before, here.

I found the book and quote, here.
The alleged quote appears on page 121.
London was a radical progressive socialist, who wrote fiction, not history, and may well have wished Lincoln said something like the words in London's fiction book.

This then becomes the earliest actual evidence we can find of the alleged quote.
Other claimed evidence consists of:

Lincoln's alcoholic lawyer William Herndon and Jessie Weik's 1888 Biography of Lincoln, which Crawford & Buhler imply includes the quote, others say it doesn't.
I've searched Volumes 1 & 2, and that quote is not in either of them.
A posited 1888 political pamphlet (Mikkelson) said to include the quote.
I can't find the actual pamphlet, or any certain reference to it.
An alleged denunciation by Lincoln's secretaries Hay and Nicolay, saying the quote is a "bold, unflushing forgery", and suggesting the quote was a public item in 1888.
But I can't confirm that Hay and Nicolay denounced the quote as a forgery.

So, the key point is: there is no original evidence of the alleged letter to Col. William F. Elkins dated Nov. 21, 1864, and so everything reported about it is at least second hand, and comes from people with a decided ideological ax to grind, wishing to use Lincoln as their whetstone.

DiogenesLamp: "When I see you getting all long winded and wordy, I just skip the comment and go look for something else to read."

Naw... the truth is you are perfectly capable of writing and responding to long posts, so long as they agree with your own views.
It's only when they disagree that you become intolerant and dismissive.

London was a radical progressive socialist, who wrote fiction, not history, and may well have wished Lincoln said something like the words in London's fiction book.

You are attacking Jack London. What he was had nothing to do with the fact that he quoted something that he believed Lincoln said, unless you are arguing he was deliberately trying to push something he knew was wrong.

His book proves the quote is at least as old as 1908. I think you are saying it can be shown to be from 1883. The first time I mentioned it in this thread said it came from a letter to Elkins in 1864. I would think the Elkins thing could be verified as true or not, but I don't know.

Lincoln's alcoholic lawyer William Herndon and Jessie Weik's 1888 Biography of Lincoln, which Crawford & Buhler imply includes the quote, others say it doesn't.

And you have to denigrate his law partner as an "alcoholic"? Well clearly he can't get basic facts about Lincoln right because he was an "alcoholic." It's a wonder General Grant was so effective.

Why would you think that quote makes Lincoln look bad? I actually think it makes him look good. He realized what was happening and warned people about it.

Look at how these modern version of the corporate crony capitalists collusion cartels are playing out.

Kamala Harris was a hated nobody, and in just a couple of weeks they have made her into the BEST PERSON EVER!

The corporate media-liars are now saying she's awesome, even though she sounds like an idiot and has never done anything of any worth in her entire life.

The corruption cartel has completely changed how people view her, and they are able to do this because they have the power to present people as being "Hitler" (Trump for example) or "Mother Teresa", Like they are doing with Kamala the idiot.