Posted on 08/06/2024 11:30:06 PM PDT by Morgana
“Being told, “No” is a trigger? “
The counselors teach them that this is an acceptable excuse. Not just the school ones but the ones they visit during their weekly appointments.
Ive worked with a lot of these people and in their programs there is nearly always a section on interacting with that person, both methods that seems to assist when communicating with that person and a list of known triggers to avoid. Probably the most common trigger is “Doesnt like to be told “no”.”
These individuals wind up learning, both through reinforcement of negative behaviors in the schools and misguided poor parenting at home, that acting out results in reward. The system they enter into when they can no longer live at the home of a parent more often than not devolves into one of bribery where they learn that they can get private accommodations and individual control of the food budget/menu by balancing behaviors they are in control of against bribes for gift provided they dont become more aggressive or otherwise problematic.
“That kid needs to be in a cage.”
17. six foot six.
That is not a kid.
extremely intolerant of evil thugs that maim people, yes ...
When they get into the system and get moved to group homes they are taught that violence fixes everything by the state and their placement agencies.
In group homes one has to work together on menus and compromise with others or have seating arrangements or personal property like personal chairs. Provided that these people do not have issues that would actually inhibit them from learning then they quickly learn from environment, experience, or peers, that certain things like being unusually antisocial and violent will eventually get them what they want by moving them to accommodations, at that placement agency or one that specializes in “extreme behaviorals”, that are private and allows them to never have to share/compromise and allows for personal staff.
“Bad parenting is at the top of my list.”
I’ve followed this case from the beginning. His adoptive parents did everything they could. It got to the point where they could not care for him and had to put him in a group home. They warned everyone, the group home, the school that he was violent. They said he should not be in a public school. Then this happened.
This one time it’s not the parents. This is a case if bringing back old time Nervous Hospitals for kids like that.
“The school.was warned, the state should be sued,
the teacher is a Karen.- respect my authority- SHE was a self entitled idiot to take a favorite playtoy from a huge Pit bull twice her size..
the school should have never let these 2 halfwitz get together.
unlike the teacher who got shot in Newport news, this teacher could see the tiger, and knew what it was capable of, yet still went into its cage and tried to tell the tiger where to sit and stay..
I’m guessing the teacher never was told no either.
Bambi vs Godzilla, place your bets...
IMHO the guy needs a psyche hospital. And prison will get him killed or worshipped.”
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I not only agree with everything you said but you gave me insight to that teacher.
“the teacher is a Karen.- respect my authority- SHE was a self entitled idiot to take a favorite playtoy from a huge Pit bull twice her size..”
I would not have done what she did. I would have said to him “Brenden please put your toys away it’s time for class” and if he did not I would go up to him and ask again. Stating it class time and not play time asking him to join in the class.
I noticed, an many other have too that when this teacher was attacked it took several minutes for people to save her from the kid. If you watch the video you see several just walk on by as she’s being smacked around. Now I’m really wondering why they did not try to stop him? Was it him or was it her? Maybe they were glad she got her ass beat?
Notice too she’s had to fight for her health insurance and loss of her job. In most teaching jobs some one who had been on the job for 19 years and was well loved the other teachers would stand behind him/her and demand that person be covered more so in a situation like this. Not true with his woman, as she is having to sue them.
I bet there is a lot more to this story and it’s not just this one kid.
You may be surprised by how common staff instigating behaviors actually is and its generally by low experience individuals that are certain they know better that what the program (BSP) directs.
I have worked with people with the same diagnoses and medications. Ive even put the exact same lines in the behavioral support plans.
Some of these individuals that are capable of reading eventually will memorize their program and test support staff.
For example there was a person that sometimes could go outside of their home. That person would think of an unusual behavior and do it to see what reaction it would elicit from support staff. Lets say for example that the person in question would rub mud from their hair all the way down their face and clothes to their feet.
If there was nothing in the program that stated that the person couldnt do that and the staff just stood there or talked about the birds or something then the rest of the day may well go by without any incident. If the person tried to tell them to stop or that they werent allowed to do that then that staff failed the test and these individuals would know that this was not following the program and a full day of violence would be the staffs reward for making up their own program directives.
The teacher did not follow the program, and like many support staff that work with these kind of people and make up their own directives for the person in placement, received the expected result.
I cant tell you how many staff Ive seen beaten for almost exactly the same thing over the last 20ish years. There are many reasons the career field has a high turnover rate, being the person that cant follow directions is often one of them.
I believe you. I don’t doubt what you described is true in many cases. Maybe even most cases. In other cases, though, for some people with this diagnosis, sometimes something just sets them off.
What is to be done? We all were told that institutions were terrible places. Maybe, instead of being shut down, the institutions should’ve been changed to make them nice places.
Frankly I don’t care what level he is...he’s a serious danger to people obviously....no matter where he is put.
....”Her warning about “triggers”, shows she absolutely knew about the monster’s anger control problem”.....
...And HE knows about his anger issues.
He should not be on the street, or in a school setting. He has a very long history of violence.... a lot of aggression over a Nintendo Switch.... he’s way too explosive he fought himself out of his own clothes ....he’s not safe around other people.
Imagine having to call in a crisis team just to remove a 1lb switch from his hands!... The “mainstreaming” of children with special needs into regular schools and classrooms just doesn’t make sense.
Further...Technology devices represent distraction ‘used by parents’ as a form of respite. This ‘results into obsession’ by the autism individual....well known in the medical community.... This morphs into various and extreme behaviors when access is denied....confiscating a restricted item in school should not result in the teacher being beat unconscious, autism or not.
Well you have proven once again kids like these need their own special schools. And maybe the “board of education” applied to their ass when they are little.
He’s where he needs to be - locked up.
Why should anyone with level 3 autism, who is unable to control their mental functions without appropriate medication and constant profession supervision be thrown into a prison where there is no level of appropriate care available to him?
Mentally, he is a kid with level 3 Autism and has no control over his actions without proper medication and constant supervision.
He does not belong in prison. He belongs in an a constant care home where he will be monitored and treated appropriately
Obviously I cant claim to have communicated with every person out there or have heard of every behavior but I personally dont think that Ive ever seen someone actually go off for “no reason”. “No reason” usually means staff instigated it and is covering or you will connect it with something eventually in retrospect.
Many times, especially with someone that doesnt communicate well, there is a “known trigger” that isnt really a trigger. It has been identified previously as something close to or related to the actual trigger but isnt quite right and then with correction to the program the mysterious explosions arent so mysterious anymore.
Factually at least 99% of those involved in that entire industry are lying to you. The government always lies, too much money and corruption. The staff always lie, either because the sub 85 IQ people that they tend to hire at entry level dont know any better or think they can do whatever they want and swag their way out of it by being abusive. The service providers arent going to admit that their staff is useless and causes much of the problems through abuse and refusal to do their job. The counselors are all leftists or cover up for the leftist in the profession. Often times the guardians, even the professional ones, are FAR crazier and more irresponsible than the person that was placed and instigate so many of these things that you hear about in the news (This is one place that we know the solution, switch enforced placement between guardian and client.)
“Institutions” are/were bad and unions have only made it worse. There does need to be an adjustment made in the number of beds available to the state for placement and changes made to who has to stay.
For example, your state only has 200 beds available at the hospital for those needing the most significant help. 199 beds are full and three peoples court cases ended today with the judges sending those people in for treatment. The physicians down at the hospital have to decide who seems the most likely to be able to successfully move out to a residential service provider and kicks them out to make room.
Sometimes they guess wrong. Sometimes the guardians stick their nose in and blows the placement up. Sometimes they do get successfully placed just for some loser that wants to watch a basketball game instead of doing his job to instigate things so bad that the person has to go back. Now the physician has to start all over, “Hmmm, which one of these 200 is least likely to go to their hometown and punch infants...”
We certainly could expand the whole thing on the government end but that would sky rocket taxes and result in even worse treatment and outcomes for most of those placed. Where do we set the tax dial and how much officially sanctioned union protected abuse do we allow?
The often abusive private way that no one will tell you the truth about is actually probably the best we have and I think most of the clients would say so. The interference from bleeding hearts and the corrupt will keep anyone focused on the well being of the clients from spending a lifetime actually helping anyone to achieve the best possible outcomes but its all we have.
His parents knew about his "triggers," which is why they didn't put him in school. They adopted him as a baby from foster care, and they homeschooled him because of his condition. When he was smaller, they could keep him calm. When he grew bigger, they couldn't manage him, so they sent him to an institution. They never thought he should be in school. But, the insurance stopped paying for his institutional care, and the state took over. The state put him in a group home and the school system.
Yes she is, thank you! I have told her numerous times that I couldn’t do her job, I’d be in jail by noon. Those kids….ugh
You have picked up on something that makes me wonder what the whole story is.
States have different rules and of course we wouldnt need so many lawyers if they were all cut and dried at the same threshold so you have to assume that this answer is entirely nonsense because Im not there where this happened.
I do know that this story doesnt really pass muster in this state.
A person with these diagnoses at this level of aggression wouldnt be in a public school here. Many of these people Ive worked with had only had a few grades of school before they had to drop out because they were a danger to themselves or others. I have worked with people that once were like this that through years of proper support were able to attempt to go back to school but only after a long period of not having these types of behaviors and their support staff had to go with them.
Ive also never worked with a person that had these mental health diagnoses and was ruled to be competent to stand trial and those people could communicate. Ive told a number of stories around here related to something happening and the police officer being berated by the court for exactly this reason. To try and explain the reasoning behind this you would need an attorney from that state.
I dont know these parents and have no idea how things were at home for this individual. I am aware of situations where the parents had effectively built and cohabitated in a nearly stimulus free second womb with the individual needing help with bribes always being used to control behavior. Needless to say that once removed from that environment the person cant cope with it. Hell, I come from “the big city” and after moving to and living out in BFE for well over 20 years Im on the verge of behaviors myself every time I have to go interact with people in the little village out here. How is a mentally disabled individual going to process something like that? As for bribery, its a poor plan that always eventually fails. As long as someone has enough cognitive ability to recognize something has value to them, the program will devolve into attempts at extortion. “Give me my reward soda/candy/sticker/smileyface now or Im going to kick your ass and destroy the house.”
“Further....or not.” Yes, for the most part but I do want to point out that at least in this instance the way it was explained this might not be a bribe and is actually an instance of what I posted about making up program rules on the fly. Someone like this may well recognize that they have issues even if they dont understand them and want to try to control them so they can achieve some small level of independence. When these people are placed with someone like myself their home or the apartment we provide is converted depending on their individual needs to a personal asylum. Often a person like this will have a sensory stimulation room. This is a room where the person goes to practice engaging in activities that helps them refocus and control themselves without staff intervention. This room might have music, blinking lights, video games, etc that are known to be pleasant distractions for this person. If his game became his portable distraction to control himself without PRN medications or other staff intervention then it would be written into his program that he should be allowed to carry it and use it to self soothe whenever he felt emotionally challenged. If the teacher took it away and attempted to use it as a reward at the end of class instead then his understanding would be that his rights and personal property were being taken away and he would ignite like a wooden match thrown into a jet engine.
I didnt effectively speak to obsession component.
With many of these things, the medical community, the support staff, even sometimes the client will understand and know something to be true.
If the guardian and/or the county case manager come up with some marvelous plan then that is often what is implemented regardless of how idiotic and harmful the idea is for the client. Ultimately, provided no human rights are blatantly violated, whoever writes the checks makes the rules. Since the money comes from the government and the guardian has some say as to which available place gets the contract they often have more say than anyone that actually understands what is going on with that person.
I could tell you stories...
Yknow, I didnt explain that very well.
Nobody like to be told “no”.
So we have established that we are talking with a human. Thats not really the issue at hand an that isnt what it sounds like.
What most people get out of that and what many of the staff will interpret that as is to go along with anything the person says. If the person claims to be a wealthy space alien that wants to have sex with a tree stump then some people think its OK to encourage those ideas, “Sure, Ill take you to the dealer to get a new car and then we can stop and get you some lube for that sexy stump.” Its bad when some staff actually follow through with some of these things but its even worse when they agree to do it and dont because it destroys any faith the client has with any of the other staff a few of which might be actually trying to help.
When you say “no” to the staffm “Thats not what that means,” they will say, “Well, if I cant say no then I have to say yes.”
It means to use other techniques that dont encourage problems but that would take mental work and a lot of these staff cant swing more than basic math.
Depending on the person and their diagnoses and what is being said the staff should try something other than being oppositional.
Sometimes attempting to change the subject is a good idea.
Sometimes just making a neutral statement that doesnt confirm or deny their position is useful.
Sometimes, at least with people that are higher functioning and those with ideas most likely to lead to negative consequences, verbally walking them around the subject using the socratic questioning will allow the individual to explore the possibilities and likely outcomes and then they will likely tell themselves “no”, sometimes with a obvious look of realization and a verbal statement to themselves.
There are other techniques but if the staff cant follow the basic ones they arent going to be able to execute anything more difficult.
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