Why is NATO expanding its nuclear force?

Asia Times ^ | 6/18/24 | Steven Bryen

[ansel12]

Trump was right to get our allies to do more towards improving their militaries and increasing their military budgets, this is good news that NATO is waking up and improving in those areas.

[hardspunned]

NATO needs to scrapped and our military budget slashed, at minimum, 30%.

[marktwain]

According to this report, China is has been building up its nuclear arsenal as well.

New Pentagon report claims China now has over 500 operational nuclear warheads

[ansel12]

It seems you think history is over and we and the rest of the white world can just chill and trust China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran, and the rest to not cause any major problems for us today or after 10 or 20 years of getting things arranged the way they like globally.

Thirty months ago the rest of NATO being more prepared militarily would have been seen as good, and I’m pretty sure that up until weeks or a couple of months ago the big complaint among the anti-West crowd was that NATO was being too slack in defense.

[Kazan]

I'm old enough to remember when our leaders feared nuclear war and tried to avoid any potential for one.

[Widget Jr]

"I am certain that a lot of the Eastern European countries were jonesing to march east with NATO for the spoils but that doesn't seem to be working out well. "

Since when were you certain of this? Show it. You can't because it is all fantasy.

[cowboyusa]

THE ENEMY IS HERE, OPEN UP YOUR EYES!

[ansel12]

“”””I’m old enough to remember when our leaders feared nuclear war and tried to avoid any potential for one.””””

I also remember when we did that by bristling with nuclear weapons and maintaining over 3 million Americans in the military and conducting massive Reforgers, and fighting Russians and Chinese in Korea and Vietnam.

A weak NATO invites trouble, it doesn’t avoid it, NATO is right to be looking at military preparedness and spending more.

Jimmy Carter put us in a situation where we were anticipating WWIII in 1984, Reagan cut loose and closed that window with a lot of military energy and spending.

[Freest Republican]

Exactly, it never ends via treaty or not.

Which is exactly why NATO encroachment is a myth.

Since day one, the proximate cause of this invasion like his Crimean invasion in 2014 were sky rocketing oil prices.

The $23/bbl difference fr pre Biden to now is worth $90,000,000,000/yr in added revenue at face value on oil alone.

This will end with drill, drill, drill or whenever Putin decides to end it or absolutely zero change since day one.

[Widget Jr]

"Blinken started the war by telling Lavrov the US was deploying nuckear capable missiles in Ukraine"

Lavrov disagrees with this claim. 24 January 2024, Lavrov to UN on Ukraine and Israel, Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs transcript, Mid.ru/en link:

Question: Excuse me, there is no evidence that the United States has deployed tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine or Belarus. It's only Russia doing this at this point because it wants to defend its territory.

Sergey Lavrov: I did not say that the Americans are situating their weapons in Ukraine. They have been keeping their nuclear weapons on the territory of five NATO member countries for many years, and the citizens of these countries are being taught how to use these nuclear weapons. That's what I said.

Unless you have a better source than Lavrov himself.

[Freest Republican]

Is there a need to list every nation on earth, that the US military will defend, whether a treaty exists or not?

It seems after 2 1/2 yrs of blaming NATO for the commie KGB stooge’s invasion that it may be warranted to list every single nation on earth not a member of NATO that the US military will defend.

[Freest Republican]

We’re defending 90% of earth via treaty or not.

NATO encroachment is a myth as whether it is happening or not doesn’t matter in the slightest. We;re still defending XY and Z whether a treaty or not exists.

Go look at oil prices hitting $120/bbl in 2013 before his invasion in 2014 and going up 50% under Biden in 2021 before invading in 2022 and make the NATO encroachment claim.

[wildcard_redneck]

"We’re defending 90% of earth via treaty or not."

Let me guess, you want us to "defend" 100% of the world whether they like it or not.

[Jumper]

Blinkens own words sealed Ukraine’s fate when he said the US was putting them in Ukraine. Russia acted swuftly to end those plans. Your miscomprehension of nuclear capable in a 60 minute warhead conversion from defensive to offensive doesn’t seem to be understood. The US Missiles in Poland are dual use. Blinken told Lavrov Russia could argue the total numbers but had no say in what NATO Friendly countries recieved US Missiles.

It is sad the western press fails to mention concessions made in Turkey, Minsk, or US diplomatic provocations.

The US is at a historic moment where our military can no longer impose an economic USD based world order. Our sanctions have only increased membership applications to Brics. The world saw Iraq and Lybia destroyed over non-US currencies. Their flight from the USD orbit makes sense for economic and security concerns- 2/3s of the world’s population is too poor for the EU/US fiat, and they seek the stability of asset based trade with nations where overvalued fiat is failing.

Obama/Biden miscalculation have made the graveyard of the west.

The new economic world order will separate the EU/US bloc from the majority 170 nations.

The past 45 days have seen Blinken lose with China, Thailand, Niger and other places as our threats and fiat insolvency escalated.

[Zhang Fei]

[Anyway, I’m screwed because I’m in the “die slowly and painfully” fallout area.]

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The fallout hysteria is just that - hysteria. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were cleared starting the day after - and resettled. Nagasaki’s population before the bomb was 250K. It is now 500K. Japan’s population went from 70m prewar to 125m recently.

If death from Russian nukes worries you this much, there’s always Mother Russia. Move to a dacha in the sticks with no running water that no one will bother to strike. The lifestyle might be spartan, but the price is right. 10 to 20 thousand dollars for a cottage far away from the big city, a step or two up from a log cabin.

[2001convSVT]

Make me think of the R.E.M song, “It’s the End of the World as We Know It (and I Feel Fine).

Thanks Biden.

[Widget Jr]

The claim is, Blinken said the US was putting nuclear weapons in Ukraine. I posted Lavrov, from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs web page, saying that was not the case.

When and where, in what context, did Blinken say the US was moving nuclear weapons to Ukraine? Since Russia was already massing forces on the border before Blinken spoke, how could his words have been the cause of actions Russia was already committed?

Can you back up your claim with any link, like I did, or are you just going to keep ignoring Lavrov's own words?

[Kazan]

NATO's purpose was as defensive organization, one combating the dangers of communism, specifically the Soviet Union.

Now, it's business, one that thrives off aggression and bullying. And, that is what dangerous.

Russia absolutely did not have to be our enemy. Our actions and NATOs in Ukraine made them our enemy. And, that in turn, pushed Russia into an alliance with China, both militarily and economically.

The dollar and petrodollar are now endangered as the world's currency. If we keep pushing, we're looking at potential with Russia and China, which we'd lose.

[Reverend Wright]

" We’re defending 90% of earth via treaty or not. "

------------------------------------

Delusional American BoomerCons need to re-connect with reality, and America's current status in the world !

In 1941, Japan had 5 percent of world steel production and the USA had 35 percent. The assessment of most was that Japan was so industrially overmatched that defeat was inevitable.

Well in 2024, it is the USA which has 5 percent of world steel production, and China has 45 percent !

Time to wake up and revise the USA's global commitments to the level of the resources available.

[Zhang Fei]

[I’m surprised Muscle Shoals and Mobile aren’t targets here in Alabama. They have always been regarded as potential targets.

Anyway, I’m screwed because I’m in the “die slowly and painfully” fallout area.]

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Much of the hysteria about fallout is longstanding Russian disinformation planted with Russia sympathizers during the Soviet era. Part of it was the usual left wing hysteria. Part of it was ideological fellow traveling. But at least one part was just lack of compelling material to justify helping the Russians get a leg up. Who wants to be part of a Russian kleptocracy, Tsarist, Bolshevik or Putinist? So let’s give Russia everything it wants even if we end up as Russian oblasts, a Novo NovoRossiya, because that way we don’t risk a Russian nuclear attack.

Anyhow, life expectancies at Nagasaki and Hiroshima are not materially different from other Japanese prefectures - low to mid-80s - despite these two areas being the only cities ever attacked with nuclear weapons, with what would be considered dirty, high-fallout warheads by today’s standards.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_prefectures_by_life_expectancy