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Fascism: Left or right?
American Thinker ^ | 11 Jun, 2024 | Jay Davidson

Posted on 06/11/2024 7:32:28 AM PDT by MtnClimber

Words have meaning — especially words that mean the opposite of what one thinks. Clear definition has greater meaning.

Fascism allows the business to keep the means of its production, the factories or farms, but takes the output (profit). The Nazis of 1930s Germany were Fascists. “Nazi” is an acronym for the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. Today we call it corporatism. The end result is control.

Communism takes both the means of production and the output. The Communist Party ruled the USSR until its economy failed in the 1980s.

Both assume that the State owns everything. In truth, both imply that the individual has no rights, no individualism, no freedom. The State is all. Their slogan is “Together.” But their meaning is “Give me everything.”

While fascism and communism are social concepts, the State cannot obtain control of everything without intervening in its population’s private and economic lives. Since, in their minds, the State is all, there can be no individual and therefore no right to ownership. The State will regulate everything; tax all; and live, for a short time, off the steadily declining capital of the few remaining individuals.

Socialism is the midpoint between freedom and serfdom. It is the gateway drug to convince the weak and weary that if they give up their greedy, individual ways, and worship a government, that government will take care of them.

Socialism starts the population down the path of believing that their problems are so great (climate change, pandemics, inflation, recession) that they need a greater entity to step in. That greater entity is the State, government, bureaucracy. Show me any economic philosophy that survives communism, fascism, or socialism.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: marxism
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To: FLT-bird

Fascism was a reaction to Communism. There would have been no Mussolini, Hitler or Franco without Lenin. Europeans, unlike Americans, were aware of the massive crimes committed by the Communists. Fascists were more supportive of traditional values. They were pro-family where the Soviets wanted to abolish the family. They were more tolerant of the church. Anti-Fascism is the religion of the progressives. Hitler comes in a poor third in the mass murder competition, yet he is the only one used as an example of inhumanity. He is accused of wanting to conquer the world but did not cross a 22 mile channel.


21 posted on 06/11/2024 8:16:55 AM PDT by Vehmgericht
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To: MtnClimber; Jonty30

Fascism is corporations and politicians scratching each others back, while keeping the masses sufficiently happy so they won’t revolt.

By that definition we live in a fascist state, as are all so called “capitalist” states.

It is the most stable form of government. It is the one most governments end up being - the final destination of governance. China is a perfect example. They morphed from a decrepit communist state (no private property) to a very successful fascist (capitalist) state.

Politicians have the power and can control corporations. But entrepreneurs/corporations are the ones that know how to create wealth if given enough freedom to do so, so smart politicians allow that. And the masses mostly go along with the program as long as they’re kept reasonably content. If not they blow up the whole thing and start over.


22 posted on 06/11/2024 8:17:37 AM PDT by aquila48 (Do not let them make you "care" ! Guilting you is how they control you. )
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To: MtnClimber

All calls for unity in politics represent a call for the elimination of true diversity in some manner, and pretend we all should be on the same page on far too many things. Unity is in the end a call to eliminate Liberty, even if only bit by bit.

Whereas a call for Liberty is a call for true divesity, in which we pledge that we do not have to agree on everything, and are willing to not have the government control or run everything, allowing a larger role of Liberty and individual choices to build society in diverse ways and with more true diversity as a result.


23 posted on 06/11/2024 8:21:09 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: MtnClimber
I think this guy gets it right, i.e. fascism is about "Blood and Soil" and is basically a right-wing political theory regardless of what Dinesh or others claim:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T_98uT1IZs

(What is Fascism?)

24 posted on 06/11/2024 8:22:37 AM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear (Kafka was an optimist.)
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To: dfwgator
I’m sure all the gays killed in the concentration camps would have been relieved to hear that.

You should read Scott Lively’s books, The Pink Swastika, and The Poisoned Stream. Hitler was busted In Vienna for male(homosexual) prostitution just before WW1. The entire NAZI leadership were bisexuals modeled after Sparta. Masculine homosexuality was essentially a rite of passage for the elites. It was only the effeminate homosexuals who were persecuted by the NAZIs. Lively extensively quotes German writers from the 30s-40s
25 posted on 06/11/2024 8:39:13 AM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: MtnClimber

Neither. It’s called a 3rd Positionist ideology.


26 posted on 06/11/2024 8:39:50 AM PDT by Mr. Blond
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To: MtnClimber

“Fascism allows the business to keep the means of its production, the factories or farms, but takes the output (profit).”

They don’t take ALL of the profit, just some, like our government does.

Thus, we’re very much a fascist state... and that’s not bad.

There are basically three forms of governments.

1. Communism - the state owns and decides everything. It knows best in everything.

2. Fascism - the state recognizes that some people (entrepreneurs) are very good at producing and inventing things, so it gives them enough free rein and property rights to create wealth for themselves, with the state (politicos) and the masses also getting a cut of it. The smart politicos make sure that they don’t kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

3 - libertarianism - at its extreme, no government, no laws, everyone on his own. A free for all jungle. This is the most unstable form of government that’s why there aren’t any around.


27 posted on 06/11/2024 8:41:05 AM PDT by aquila48 (Do not let them make you "care" ! Guilting you is how they control you. )
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To: MtnClimber

Stopped reading after the second sentence.

Fascism is a *ONE PARTY* government with a market economy. Full stop. The name delineates it from “Socialism” which is
a one-party state with the GOVERNMENT owning the means of production or a free market state with multiple parties.

The definition is by the man who is only a professional journalist who ever ascended to power. He also implemented it to include a nationalist and expansionary foreign policy.

By definition, no state with competing parties has a fascist government nor does any state without a market economy.

Some random author or professor does not get to rewrite original definitions so that a word can just mean “Something I don’t like”

China is fascist. Fascism revitalized Germany. Fascism can work quite well as far as economic development goes.


28 posted on 06/11/2024 8:44:25 AM PDT by Aeneas2112 (YOU are your own first responder)
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To: MtnClimber

People often look at the political spectrum and see Leftists and Communism on one side, and at the complete and opposite end, Rightists and Nazism on the other.

I think that is a completely inaccurate way of looking at the ideological spectrum.

I believe the view that it is total anarchy (no government) at one end, and at the complete and opposite end, is total and tyrannical government.

In this model, the Communists and Nazis are clustered together, even overlapping near to the end of the total and tyrannical government. Constitutional Republics like ours (or, what ours used to be) are found in the left of center or right of center. Libertarians (at least the old school ones) would be found closer to the anarchical end.

This interpretation makes sense to me, but it also made sense to both Communists and Nazis in the years leading up to WWII. They found on both the Communist and Nazi sides that they weren’t that far apart from each other, and the other side was fertile ground for converts.


29 posted on 06/11/2024 8:49:45 AM PDT by rlmorel (In Today's Democrat America, The $5 Dollar Bill is the New $1 Dollar Bill.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

There was nothing national about national socialism. It was a global movement. Socialism is the antithesis to Frederick Bastiat’s small government free markets free elections model. Socialism and communism are almost identical with slight differences. Why the false dichotomy ?


30 posted on 06/11/2024 8:50:05 AM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: rlmorel

Your view of the political spectrum matches mine. Anarchists would also belong on the far right, but I think most that call themselves anarchists are really communists that only want the instability of anarchy to crash the system so communism can “build back better” (better meaning worse).


31 posted on 06/11/2024 8:55:30 AM PDT by MtnClimber (For photos of scenery and wildlife, click on my screen name for my FR home page. More photos added.)
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To: MtnClimber

32 posted on 06/11/2024 8:57:16 AM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: MtnClimber

LOL, of course the Libertarians are harder to categorize because they are often so inconsistent and unrealistic that they are all over the map.

But...I see that exact distinction about at least some of those “Libertarians” who just want to see it all burn...


33 posted on 06/11/2024 9:02:27 AM PDT by rlmorel (In Today's Democrat America, The $5 Dollar Bill is the New $1 Dollar Bill.)
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To: rlmorel
The Fascists (the real ones, in Italy), the NAZIs, and the Bolsheviks/Soviets were all authoritarian extremists.

I definitely wouldn't completely agree with the graph below, because like everyone else they try to lump the national socialists over with the "right", but it gives you an idea how the problem of one dimensional thinking ruins political discussions and causes a lot of people to lump groups and ideologies together that have very little in common.

In this case, the pertinent point is that fascism, communism, and socialism tend to either be an excuse for totalitarianism, or they end up having to resort to extreme oppression in order to force compliance with the system.


34 posted on 06/11/2024 9:06:01 AM PDT by z3n (Kakistocracy)
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To: z3n

I have never seen that before, and I agree it has some value. But the “Modern Conservatism” > “Nazism” is simply the result of the Leftist value setting.

The caveat is how you define “Modern Conservatism”.

I don’t define “Modern Conservatism” as “RINO” because those are all, IMO, Leftists.

And if “Modern Conservatism” is defined as those who believe in the Constitution, it simply CANNOT drive them down the “Left” side of that graphic. (and certainly cannot drive them down the “Right” side to Nazism)

A Republic guided by the Rule of Law and respect for the individual CANNOT descend to “Tyranny” if that is how “Modern Conservatism” is defined, because in that case, “Modern Conservatism” is wholly incompatible with “Tyranny”.

That said, I did find the graphic thought provoking, so...I appreciate your posting it.


35 posted on 06/11/2024 9:15:28 AM PDT by rlmorel (In Today's Democrat America, The $5 Dollar Bill is the New $1 Dollar Bill.)
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To: MtnClimber

I have been learning recently about the Nazi “obsession” with public health

The Nazis conducted the first government anti-smoking, diet recommendations, and “greening” campaigns for workspaces and factories. They were also active promoters of vaccinations, and conducted extensive research into modifying humans to improve useful traits for the nation and collective. We are all aware of their view of eugenics. Hence the large amount of medical experimentation done at concentration camps.

They had what is now a very secular-humanist, atheistic, and modernist, utilitarian view of human life the face of science, and believed that science, combined with the power of the state could greatly improve the health and genetics of the population.


36 posted on 06/11/2024 9:29:57 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: PGR88

They were also active promoters of vaccinations, and conducted extensive research into modifying humans to improve useful traits for the nation and collective.


That “tradition” continued with the East Germans and their Olympic athletes.


37 posted on 06/11/2024 9:31:18 AM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: MtnClimber

According to Giovanni Gentile, the co-founder of fascism and Mussolini’s ghostwriter, fascism is “the most viable form of socialism.”

Mises wrote about “Russian socialism, “ i.e., Communism, and “German socialism,” i.e., fascism/Naziism. There are only small shades of difference. I often say that the difference between the two is roughly the difference between maroon and burgundy. Fascism is perhaps half a baby step to the right of Communism, but in practice, they amount to the same thing.

Fascist leaders like Mussolini and Hitler were admired by early progressives and they shared many ideas.

Fascism is simply a slightly different form of leftism than Communism is.


38 posted on 06/11/2024 10:13:21 AM PDT by TBP (Decent people cannot fathom the amoral cruelty of the Biden regime.)
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To: TBP

Fascism and Communism - Two rabid dogs fighting over the same bone.


39 posted on 06/11/2024 10:14:07 AM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: MeanWestTexan
The lie that the National Socialists were “right” is one of the biggest lies of the 20th century.

Exactly, and done universally in the then-mainstream media. There were two reasons for this. First, they wanted to support Stalin and needed to make those two systems seem as different as possible. However, as Hayek laid out in "The Road to Serfdom" they are inherently the same, and share the inherent, unavoidable flaws. Second, they needed a 'boogeyman' they could label as "the right" to hate so that people would move away from the aspect of the political right (not accepting their definition that fascism is 'right wing) that is against socialism.

That's why I reject the entire right-left metric as it is currently applied. It was, for a long time, taught that the spectrum was actually like a circle where the right and left curve back to become similar to each other. But that falls because the position halfway in between is in no way an average of the two systems.

The actual political spectrum is between authoritarianism (socialism, communism, fascism, progressivism) and anarchy. The struggle throughout human history has been to find some sort of true compromise between those extremes. The US Constitution defines a wonderful compromise, far superior to the system we live under.
40 posted on 06/11/2024 10:16:03 AM PDT by Phlyer
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