gleeaikin:
"Regarding our Vietnam difficulties, I have some historical perspective.
It was not long after the Johnson victory over Goldwater.
I was in my later 20s and spending some time with a mixed age group of news junkies ranging from mid 20s to mid 40s.
There was a lot of arguing about how Congress should vote on the Gulf of Tonkin resolution." I think we are on pretty much of the same side here.
Like you, I well remember the Vietnam war, and unlike you I haven't confused or conflated the dates or sequence of events.
The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was in early August, 1964, three months before the election pitting incumbent Democrat Pres. LB Johnson against Republican "Mr. Conservative" Arizona Sen. Barry Goldwater.
In the campaign, Johnson ran "Daisy Girl" adds accusing Goldwater of wanting to start a nuclear war because Goldwater wanted to be certain, if we fight in Vietnam, we must fight to win, including potentially using tactical nukes.
In August 1964, the House of Representatives voted 416 to zero for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.
In the US Senate, only two voted against: Morse of Oregon and Gruening of Alaska.
At the time the US had around 24,000 troops in Vietnam, mostly advisors, with total forces rising to ~860,000 in 1967.
In the early years, the US public generally supported the Vietnam war, so long as we believed in the victory which Westmoreland had promised.
But when the media convinced Americans that the 1967 Communist Tet Offensive was an American defeat, many turned against the war and Democrats in Congress eventually defunded South Vietnam, leading to the disgraceful withdrawal in 1975.
The important point here, in defining what the word "conservative" means to Americans is that "Mr. Conservative", Republican Sen. Barry Goldwater, supported the war, with the caveat that he wanted to win it, with tactical nukes if necessary.
By contrast, Democrat Pres. Johnson had no plan to win the war, only to throw ever more troops into it, and then when the going got really tough, Democrats turned tails and ran away disgracefully.
That is the pattern I'd expect in Ukraine, if Democrats remain in charge after 2024.
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You are right. At this late date I confused two important Vietnam votes. One was the Gulf of Tonkin vote in 1964 when Johnson became President after Kennedy’s assassination, and the other was the $700 million vote to fund the Vietnam war in 1965 after Johnson won election. Both were discussed among the people I mentioned. One was a staff member of a NY Congressman, who was among the 3 Senators and 7 Representatives who defied Johnson by NOT voting the money. See link below:
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/14/nyregion/john-g-dow-97-early-foe-of-vietnam-war.html
I remember the anger or amusement of people at Goldwater’s comment about “lobbing one (a nuke) into the men’s room in the Kremlin.” This was scary talk to some after experiencing the Cuban missile crisis showdown in October 1962. I know I had been scared then living within 10 miles of Washington, DC. Other vivid memories of the Vietnam War were photos effectively used that turned people against the war. One was the little girl running naked down a road apparently after having her clothes burned off by napalm. Another was a North Vietnam prisoner being shot dead by a South Vietnam officer. The same effective use of horrible photos are currently being used by the pro Palestine people as children and babies are dead and dying while Israel shells places suspected of hiding Hamas terrorists. People are starting to forget the horror of how Hamas started this whole most recent mess.
Rereading your comment, I have no memory of Goldwater talking about using “tactical” nuclear weapons to win in Vietnam. Of course “tactical” may not have been written about much by the East Coast media. I do remember one story exhibiting Goldwater as a lightweight because he liked to play jokes in his office building by sending mice in sealed containers to women through the interoffice tube delivery system.
I think the goal of those who engineered Johnson’s presidency WAS to keep throwing money at the war so the MIC1 would get very rich. Then in 1968, Richard Nixon was elected president, we had Watergate, and Gerald Ford served starting around 1974.