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To: BroJoeK
The American "world order" or "Pax Americana" is a different matter. It has nothing to do with "empire" and everything to do with voluntary alliances held together by economic and security interests.

Me thinks you've got a severely warped view about how we (USA) go about spreading our ideology with invasions and regime change......

- Cuba Invasion & Sanctions - Invaded Granada
- Invaded Panama
- Invaded Afganastain
- Bombed Yugoslavia
- Bombed Libya
- Arab Spring
- Maidan Revolution
- Ukraine proxy war

That's the shortlist.

While the Western European countries of old used their military power to "occupy" and control, we have brought the concept into modern times by using not only our military power but also our economic power, coercion, and stealth.

Do you honestly believe the countries now rushing to join BRICS don't see this? If not, you're quite the fool.

The issue with "Pax Americana" today is whether it can continue successfully with less and less American contribution to it.

Maybe it can, but it will be shared "Pax" with the world. If we are not willing to join the rest of the world in dialog and not continue our bullying as we have for 70 years, then it will not turn out well -- at all. On top of that, we have a declining, corrupt, inept military that can no longer continue the brute force of the past>

Bullying and brute force worked for the first 50 years. That's over now. The rest of the world has grown up, and "they're not going to take it anymore." Most societies start the rot from within. Clearly, that's where we are with $33 trillion in debt, no control of our borders and illegal migration, and a rapidly decaying social structure. We're on that same path to destruction, and the rest of the world sees that.

No amount of daily lies, propaganda, and brainwashing will change it. Slowly but surely, our country will reach critical mass to change -- I only hope we don't self-destruct before that happens. 'Cause we're sure on that path!

Our form of government and system is clearly not working. Maybe it's time to have a grown-up conversation and reevaluate.

449 posted on 10/24/2023 6:36:09 AM PDT by icclearly (Q)
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To: icclearly; UMCRevMom@aol.com; gleeaikin
icclearly: "Me thinks you've got a severely warped view about how we (USA) go about spreading our ideology with invasions and regime change......"

Clearly your eyes are blinded by something pathological because you sound like some third-world ally of the old Soviets and Chi-Coms.
Of course, they didn't like it when the US helped suppress their communist revolutions world wide, and they still don't forgive us for it.

But why would any American, especially a self-professed Free Republic style conservative, make their arguments for them?
Here again is the truth of this matter:

  1. The idea of "American Empire" is pure fiction invented by anti-Americans to help inspire others likeminded.

  2. The reality of "Pax Americana" is a fact due mainly to a powerful US military in alliance with many other powerful countries in Europe and Asia.

  3. From 1945 to ~1991 "Pax Americana" was mainly focused on "containment" of Old Soviets and Chi-Coms, to include suppressing revolutions they inspired in third world countries.

  4. After 1991 "Pax Americana" began to refocus on globalized Islamic state aggressors as in Iraq and Iran, then after 2001 on Islamic global terrorists such as those headquartered in Afghanistan.

  5. Since the early 2000s, the CCP's rising economic power is accompanied by increasing military aggressiveness and, along with similar threats & actions from Vlad the Invader's Russia, together have increasingly demanded we again "pivot" the focus of "Pax Americana" away from Islamic pathologies to those of major global adversaries.
    That is where we stand today.
icclearly: "While the Western European countries of old used their military power to "occupy" and control, we have brought the concept into modern times by using not only our military power but also our economic power, coercion, and stealth.
Do you honestly believe the countries now rushing to join BRICS don't see this?
If not, you're quite the fool."

I have no idea what you are babbling about "coercion and stealth" -- those are empty words meaning nothing.

As for BRICS, nobody gives a d*amn about Brazil, India or South Africa, because they are in no way threats to the USA or anybody else.
They are free to do whatever they want, and make whichever friends best suit them.

Vlad the Invader's Russia, CCP's Xi-snake, NoKo's Little Kim and Iran's Moolah Mullahs, those are very different matters.
All are very aggressive lawless dictators who threaten and attack their neighbors along with supporting terrorists such as those now attacking Israel.
Allied together, China, Russia, NoKo and Iran constitute a serious new "Axis of Evil" compared to which "BRICS" of Brazil, India and South Africa are a mere society of... you name the metaphor... old ladies quilting? Old men meeting at the Lions Club? No offense intended to either of those, but they are not threats to the post-WWII "Pax Americana".

icclearly: "Maybe it can, but it will be shared "Pax" with the world.
If we are not willing to join the rest of the world in dialog and not continue our bullying as we have for 70 years, then it will not turn out well -- at all. "

That is total BS garbage talk, where did you learn such nonsense?
The truth is that whenever our allies have contributed to enforcing "Pax Americana" they have had major says in what and how our operations go.
A typical example is the 1991 Gulf War which was joined by a coalition of 40 other countries from the UK and Saudi Arabia to Japan and New Zealand.
One result was these allies put limits on how far US forces could go into Iraq and how long they could stay there.

That resulted in Saddam's survival in power and conditions which sparked Gulf War II in 2003.
Gulf War II was fought by a much smaller coalition, basically just the US, UK and Australia plus Poland.
Its end was long and drawn out and unsatisfactory from any perspective I can imagine except as battle-tested lessons in what works and what doesn't.
Those are good lessons to learn, but at the cost of $trillions in dollars and thousands of US dead & wounded, seems like a very high price to pay for our failures in planning, intelligence and leadership.

icclearly: "Most societies start the rot from within. Clearly, that's where we are with $33 trillion in debt, no control of our borders and illegal migration, and a rapidly decaying social structure.
We're on that same path to destruction, and the rest of the world sees that."

No, we're on exactly the same path that Democrats put us on whenever they've been in power since the 1960s.
And we've always gotten off that path again as soon as we elect capable Republican leadership, most notably Ronald Reagan in 1980.
Pres. Reagan's impact and long-term influence was so positive that very few people today even remember how awful and defeated the US had become under Democrat Pres. Peanut Carter.
Now we're back to that same sense of defeat and depression -- Carter himself called in "malaise" -- that drove Americans to vote for Reagan in record landslides.

I think, I hope and pray, that's where we are headed again with a second Pres. Trump victory, only this time, dear Lord, let us put an end to the entire insane Democrat agenda that is ruining our youth and rotting our country from the inside.
Somebody much smarter than I am needs to find the great wellheads for Democrat lunacies and cap them permanently, reduce their flows to mere trickles the rest our nation can easily deal with.
Can that even happen legally? God knows, but the current rot is not sustainable long-term, in my opinion.
I would never support anything other than legal processes from constitutionally elected leaders.

icclearly: "Our form of government and system is clearly not working.
Maybe it's time to have a grown-up conversation and reevaluate."

Many profound thinkers have called for a Convention of the States, including one of my favorites, Mark Levin.
The advantages include: it is 100% constitutional and lawful and can propose literally anything in a new Constitution.

I would support a Convention of States in a heartbeat if I believed it was a realistic way to correct our manifest problems, but I don't see how it could.
A new Convention of States would give us only the exact same alliances of majority Democrats against minority Republicans that we've seen in Washington since the Great Depression and 1932.
I see no way anything good would come of it.

The only real answer is the same as it's always been, just as in the 1980s, to convince vast majorities of average Americans that Republicans can put an end to Democrat insanities and restore traditional values with real law enforcement at home, genuine economic growth and credible military deterrence against the world's lunatic dictators.

These overwhelming majorities cannot include just white married "middle class", but also "working class" minorities, Hispanics, Blacks and Asians.
Once such majorities are achieved and maintained long term, then the need for things like a Convention of the States disappears.

Finally, I'd invite you to consider that we likely agree on much of this and that therefore there's no real need to fill posts with mindless insults and personal attacks.
Reasoned discussions using facts and logic are always appropriate, even on Free Republic Ukraine threads, FRiend.

459 posted on 10/25/2023 3:35:52 AM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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