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To: Timber Rattler; Right_Wing_Madman
--- "Ukraine needs to surrender tomorrow to preserve their country. Just like the France in June 1940? How'd that work out?

What an amusing exchange.

Conflating a government with a country is quite the category error, also known as category mistake.

Category Mistakes - Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Some observations about France during WWII. One Philippe Pétain replaced Albert Lebrun, the last president of the Third Republic, and Vichy became the infamous name of that French government. Charles de Gaulle led the "resistance," from afar, and then in person the nation after the National Socialist defeat.

As to "surrender," the French did not surrender, for the more accurate term was and remains capitulate. Against overwhelming force in that bloody time, capitulation was the reasonable if sad alternative. Had the other north European nations and France not capitulated in that time, there would have likely been even more death and destruction. Sometimes, what is just is.

Moreover, in terms of this thread's "Update from Ukraine" daily theme, currently there is war. Period. Which side -- meaning government, as a category -- will win is not yet determined. Given the progress of wars throughout history, a side will win -- meaning government, as a category, again -- but the other category -- a people -- all sides are losing. Ukrainians and Russians and Americans as well, when one considers "the little guy."

In parallel, some few "big guys" are winning. As noted in other comments WITH citations and URLs, and these are also Ukrainian, Russian, American and some fat cat Europeans thrown in here and there.

The above comments do not conflate "country" with "government" with the "little guy" versus the "big guy." These are separate categories, and not what goes on so often -- intentional and unintentional category errors, being used usually in service to a argument's goal.

Time will tell.

162 posted on 10/08/2023 7:47:53 AM PDT by Worldtraveler once upon a time (Degrow government)
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To: Worldtraveler once upon a time

Sorry but your words games make no sense.


163 posted on 10/08/2023 7:49:16 AM PDT by Timber Rattler ("To hold a pen is to be at war." --Voltaire)
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