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To: reasonisfaith

This theoretical discussion gets real when tragedy gets personal—as in discussed in the “drunk driver” thread of today.

If a family that “follows all the rules” by anyone’s definition loses a family member to a drunk driver then the “happy talk” rings rather hollow.


15 posted on 09/03/2023 10:31:16 AM PDT by cgbg ("Creative minds have always been known to survive any kind of bad training." Anna Freud.)
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To: cgbg

Okay, but where does that take us, specifically, on the question of evil?


27 posted on 09/03/2023 10:40:25 AM PDT by reasonisfaith (What are the personal implications if the Resurrection of Christ is a true event in history?)
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To: cgbg; reasonisfaith; metmom
This theoretical discussion gets real when tragedy gets personal—as in discussed in the “drunk driver” thread of today. If a family that “follows all the rules” by anyone’s definition loses a family member to a drunk driver then the “happy talk” rings rather hollow.

It is true that valid, rational answers are not emotionally satisfying, but that does not mean they are not valid, and can provide healing. The fact is that as the giver of life, and the God-given ability to make choices, and which have consequences that affect others, means that just (to varying degrees) as we benefit from the right choices of others, so also (to varying degrees) we suffer from the wrong choices of people, directly or (usually) indirectly.

But unless we want a world in which we cannot make choices, and that have consequences, the argument becomes why did God allow the negative ones we suffer from. For God does indeed restrain and prevent much evil (otherwise the whole world would be as North Korea or morally decline like a San Francisco).

The rational answer to this is than an infinitely wise omniscient as well as omnipotent being, who knows what every single effect will be of every choice of man - immediate, resultant and progressive, not only in this life but the future and in eternity - as well as the motive behind each one, can makes His choices in the light of all that can be known, and what He is able to do, being able to make all to ultimately work out for what is Good, with justice as well as with mercy and grace. All without removing from created moral beings the ability to make choices.

That was essentially the "answer" given to Job in the light of his protestations, meaning that the God would created the manifest universe he gazed at and saw around him, all without needing Job's advice, knew exactly what Job was going thru, and carefully watched on the temperature of his trial, which was for the good of Job, whom the envious selfish devil hated.

The alternative is faith in natural causes, for to believe that an exceedingly vast, systematically ordered universe, exquisitely finely tuned for life with intricate astounding complexity, can be all a result of purely natural processes requires much faith, more so than that the universe logically testifies to design, requiring a First Cause (at the least), that of a powerful being of supreme intelligence being behind the existence of energy and organization of matter.

It’s Almost Impossible to Understand How Unfathomably Massive Our Universe Truly Is

The Privileged Planet

Design from Fine-Tuning | Reasonable Faith

'God: new evidence' - the fine tuning of the universe - part 1

When science and philosophy collide in a 'fine-tuned' universe

We Live in a Very Fortunate Universe

Can DNA Prove the Existence of an Intelligent Designer?

82 Mind-Blowing Facts about DNA | FactRetriever.com

Extra-Biblical Historical Evidence for Christianity

Is There Any Evidence for Jesus Outside the Bible?

Amazing Stories, Christian Testimonies, Healing Miracles and Inspirational Stories

Dawkins [essentially] Admits Nothing Can Persuade Him God Exists

76 posted on 09/03/2023 11:28:10 AM PDT by daniel1212 (As a damned+destitute sinner turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves souls on His acct + b baptized 2 obey)
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To: cgbg

Today’s sermon was about Joshua entering and conquering Canaan. The primary verse was about being strong and courageous and if you follow God’s commands you will be prosperous and successful and He will be with you wherever you go.

While the preacher didn’t talk about it, what always strikes me in verses like this is how one needs to be strong and courageous (mentioned three times in the passage). Even if the assumption is that they will follow the rules such as God told them.

God didn’t say “Everything will be easy if you just follow my rules.” He commanded them to be strong and courageous, AND follow His commands. He knows that the battles ahead for them would be difficult. Just like he knows the battles ahead for us are difficult.

Of course I too think that if I follow all of the rules everything will be okay. And when they don’t it is my fault. Some things are like that (steal from a store and get punished for it), but people doing bad things to my kids, or a child walking away from God after being brought up to love God....

So I have to be strong and courageous.


242 posted on 09/03/2023 1:47:14 PM PDT by 21twelve (Ever Vigilant. Never Fearful.)
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