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If God is all powerful, then why can’t he stop evil from happening? That would mean he’s not all powerful. If God refuses to prevent evil, then he can not be all good. So can a Christian explain how God is all powerful and good in this case?
Quora.com ^ | 9/3/2023, | Daniel1212

Posted on 09/03/2023 10:10:00 AM PDT by daniel1212

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To: alexander_busek
Are you sincerely saying that you don't already know ...

Nope; for what I 'know' has no bearing on what you know.

What works for me, obviously doesn't for you - thus the question.

341 posted on 09/04/2023 4:06:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212
[...] as if exceedingly rare mass extinctions, volcanic eruptions wiping out entire civilizations [...]

That's like someone saying that "It's exceedingly rare that home invaders have captured me and my family, r*ped my wife and daughters, etc.! I can count the number of times that that has happened on ONE hand!"

Good luck to them!

Or: "It is exceedingly rare that Hiroshima and Nagasaki have been nuked! It happened like, you know, only ONCE!"

So we might as well say that it actually happened ZERO times! / sarcasm

There have been numerous times in history that civilizations have been wiped out by natural catastrophes. Besides being ignorant of History, you are also suffering under Detection Bias (to be honest, large swathes of our society have fallen victim to it). Like asking, "Everyone who hasn't come to class today: Please raise your hand! Well, no one raised his hand, so I guess that everyone is here!"

Or: "I have never suffered a memory loss! I'm sure of it! I would remember it if I had!"

Next point:

cannot be a judgment due to sin (the Flood, Pompeii) by an omniscient being who knows every action of man, and his motives, and every single effect of man's actions, as well as His own

If God punished entire societies by wiping them out, then why stop there? Why not always stop, e.g., serial killers just as they are starting a killing spree? Some killers are never caught - some not even discovered (i.e., that serial murders have even taken place, and that people have disappeared, may not even be determined by the authorities). Why destroy, e.g., Pompeii - incl. innocent children - but not serial killers long before their crimes enter into the double-digits?

Would that somehow limit Man's highly touted "Free Will?" But somehow destroying entire cities like Pompeii and Herculaneum is permissible / doesn't abrogate our Free Will?!

Regards,

342 posted on 09/04/2023 4:06:56 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: Elsie
What works for me, obviously doesn't for you - thus the question.

Well, I ANSWERED your question.

And your response?

< crickets >

Regards,

343 posted on 09/04/2023 4:08:41 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: alexander_busek
But it does NOT follow that we HAVE to accept as TRUE unsupported accounts from disreputable or disputed sources...

Quite correct.

I am, however, at a loss to find something to believe in that is not disputed or considered disreputable by someone.


Experience shows us that Nature does, truly, abhor a vacuum, so Man finds something to believe in - even if it's merely his own assumptions about how the world (should?) works.

344 posted on 09/04/2023 4:11:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: alexander_busek
...semi-literate Bronze Age tribesmen...

I wonder what our descendants; 4,000 years from now; will describe us?

345 posted on 09/04/2023 4:13:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: alexander_busek
And if his Divine Justice were to demand that all of Humanity be immediately obliterated: BRING IT ON!


346 posted on 09/04/2023 4:17:24 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212
You mean no immediate slapping down, or manifestly negative effects. Likewise, positive effects of obedience are often not immediately manifest. [That's beside the point / not my point / an irrelevancy.] Which means that once again, on one hand the atheist charges God for the evils resulting from man's disobedience to God, from conscience to express revelation, and then finds fault when He does manifest judgment.

YES! And your retort, please? WHY this inequality? Why immediate "slapping-down" when violating the "laws of electricity" - wouldn't that negate our much-touted "Free Will?" - but no immediate slapping-down of, e.g., serial murderers?

Why "slapping-down" of sinful cities like Pompeii and Herculaneum (incl. the innocent children) - doesn't that negate our precious "Free Will?" - but no immediate "slapping-down" of mass murderers - some of whom get off scot-free and/or whose crimes are even ever detected by law enforcement?

Just answer that!

A typical problem with arguments of atheists is that they want to morally argue against the God of the Bible while rejecting attributes of God and what is says as regards the scope of His operation, as if He was ignorant like them, and they were omniscient as God, and thus assert that God "needlessly permits" rare mass extinctions.

Please stop DESCRIBING what I'm asking, and instead just answer it!

HINT: An honest answer might very well be, "I have no friggin' idea why!"

Regards,

347 posted on 09/04/2023 4:19:33 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: alexander_busek
Because if God existed, then He would fix things.

If HE doesn't; then we evolved from goo.

I'd expect goo to be a bit more selective in eliminating the bad things that happen in the world.

Doesn't seem like a good game plan to me.

Maybe survival of the fittest is the best we can hope for after all.

348 posted on 09/04/2023 4:19:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
I wonder what our descendants; 4,000 years from now; will describe us?

I can only hope that they will have as much disdain for our lowly technology as I have for that of the primitive tribesmen!

Regards,

349 posted on 09/04/2023 4:20:59 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: alexander_busek
Mass Extinctions, volcanic eruptions wiping out entire civilizations, etc.

What choice have we?

We either play the hand we are dealt; or pick up our money and go home.

350 posted on 09/04/2023 4:21:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: alexander_busek
YES, THE POT DOES QUESTION THE POTTER!

So true.

And either gets used the way he/she designed it, or it gets lumped back together to start over.

351 posted on 09/04/2023 4:23:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: alexander_busek

If God were to heal all sickness and provide enough for everyone to eat and otherwise cure all ills on earth, would you bow down to Him and worship and follow His commandments? History says you would not! Read the Old Testament accounts of God’s people rescued from their sin and given all earthly blessings. They promised to be faithful but it never lasts. Other gods grab their attention and the consequences of their sin follow.


352 posted on 09/04/2023 4:26:33 AM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: alexander_busek

I'm still waiting for adequate evidence and compelling arguments.

353 posted on 09/04/2023 4:27:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: alexander_busek
Rather, the atheist merely observes that your arguments are insufficient. He makes no counter-claims. You are therefore not entitled to demand that the atheist provide a counter-explanation.

I see...

So; why are you wasting your time here?

Not a 'demand' - just curious.

354 posted on 09/04/2023 4:29:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
I am, however, at a loss to find something to believe in that is not disputed or considered disreputable by someone.

Look I provided you with several examples of "extraordinary evidence" and "extraordinary claims" - as well as with several examples of banal / trivial claims.

Was I not convincing? Were my examples not convincing? Is it not obvious?! Is not my tag-line BROADLY true? THEN SAY SO! Agree now with my tag-line. You haughtily dismissed it in your earlier post, essentially quibbling about the meaning of "is" - although it is pretty obvious. Please, not cat-and-mouse. When you've raised an objection, and I've dealt with it, then please be so polite as to acknowledge that before beginning with a new attack!

Experience shows us that Nature does, truly, abhor a vacuum, so Man finds something to believe in - even if it's merely his own assumptions about how the world (should?) works.

Now your are "diluting" the discussion. You are veering "into the weeds" by making overgeneralized, feel-good, pseudo-profound statements - that sound conciliatory - that slyly introduce additional points serving to further cloud the issue at hand.

Let's stick to the basic thesis statement, shall we? "God should be perfect and all-powerful. But God doesn't want to restrict our Free Will. Except when God restricts our Free Will by destroying cities. But God doesn't want to stop mass murderers because of... something."

Regards,

355 posted on 09/04/2023 4:30:08 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: alexander_busek
Tell that to the poor child dying in a Concentration Camp!

Not much I can do about that, but you could help a poor child suffering in a refugee camp Right NOW!

Will YOU continue to let him suffer, when it is in YOUR power to alleviate it?

356 posted on 09/04/2023 4:31:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Lazamataz

All God wants is for you to love him. How do you do this? Choose good over evil. But we don’t. What do you expect God to do? Let it slide?


357 posted on 09/04/2023 4:32:25 AM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: sit-rep

Thailand

It doesn’t quite look the same as when I was there - last of 61-62-first of 63.


358 posted on 09/04/2023 4:36:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Re. mass destruction wrought by God in the form of nat. catastrophes:

What choice have we? We either play the hand we are dealt; or pick up our money and go home.

How does your remark serve to further the discussion? I never claimed we had a "choice!"

Your remark is a distraction and/or diversion. It does not directly address my point. I don't even really know what you mean by "pick up our money, etc." Please, stop with the unhelpful, unproductive Chinese fortune cookie responses!

Namely: How can we reconcile the existence of an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent God with the existence of needless suffering? If you say that it's because God doesn't want to limit our Free Will, then I ask: Then how can He in good conscience DESTROY ENTIRE CITIES? If THAT doesn't limit our Free Will, then why not also stop mass murderers before they continue their crime sprees?

Please, no platitudes like "Well, I guess that we just have to accept it!"

Please, a substantive (falsifiable) answer!

Is my logic faulty? If so: How?

Are my facts faulty? If so: How?

A "I have no friggin' idea!" will also do quite nicely!

Regards,

359 posted on 09/04/2023 4:37:47 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: alexander_busek
And your response?

I don't hang on your every word.

360 posted on 09/04/2023 4:38:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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