Posted on 09/03/2023 10:10:00 AM PDT by daniel1212
“Love is what we’ve been discussing the entire thread.”
Love or else bad things will happen to you....that is the message I am hearing. I am sure folks know former spouses like that.
Lol.
There! Fixed it!
Not swallowing without due consideration every bold assertion is NOT to be equated with "denying."
Regards,
Black 47 is Propaganda?
You haven’t reordered things as logical. Shifting burden of proof.
I was simply pointing out that your conceptualization of “proof” is highly problematic. Your reply here is in agreement.
More on proof: DesCartes derives, through a process of doubt, that the SUBJECTIVE SELF is real and thus objectively true.
If it’s real it’s part of creation, and evidence for the Creator.
He already said: Vast chunks of their memory will be wiped. That decade they spent in a Soviet gulag will be "obliviated" - like with the Harry Potter magical spell. The unhappy childhood? Gone! Forgotten!
Only question is: Will they still be the same individual, after undergoing such a thorough brain-cleansing?
Regards,
It does have Elrond in it.
But you assert outcome as emphatically as I do.
So there is no way for you to escape your own “finger on the scale” accusation.
When you attempt to quote me with your own statements, you’re quoting yourself, not me.
This is a falsehood. At best, it’s your distorted interpretation of my statements. Highly distorted, thus false.
Why would you base your propositions on falsehood? We aren’t seeking what is false, but what is true!
I believe God allows evil to happen, because God allows Free Will. He has given us the tools needed to create a better world and He expects us to use them.
He will hold us accountable for we’ve done in life.
But forensic-level evidence and geometric logic about ultimate good is universally acknowledged.
So it’s a massive stretch, and unreasonable, to deny it.
People like this do not understand how much God would have to interfere with their own lives constantly throughout the day. You wouldn’t be able to just live and do things without being stopped or admonished.
He would intervene on your thoughts and words too. It would be impossible to live, we are all evil. Many just have their natural evil human nature, 100% sinner. Many have both their natural human nature and their new spirit, both sinner and saint in the same body struggling each day.
Everyone would be stopped so often life would become unliveable for imperfect people living in the current fallen world.
My "gut" might tell me that that Mexican at the check-out line is a greasy, untrustworthy person. My "gut" might tell me that that girl over there is looking at me funny, and laughing about me, and that maybe I should force myself upon her to teach her a lesson.
That's why I don't generally listen to my "gut" when I have my Neocortex to rely on.
People often have faulty reasoning faculties, and can be influenced by false beliefs, superstition, etc. They can be venal, close-minded, short-sighted.
Therefore, a better question would be: How would an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent Creator decide?
I say: He'd say, "Nothingness would be better than choosing a course of action that will inevitably lead to some of my children experiencing untold suffering!"
Regards,
This is stupid. If God can erase or overcome any evil men can do He needn’t worry overmuch about it. The Bible says that the human mind can’t even encompass what God has prepared to us. My guess is that people would go through five lifetimes of crap and evil to be in Heaven, once they’ve seen it.
The self is not material.
If you think the self is material, you’re in error.
The self is immaterial, and it is eternal.
Pain and suffering are material, so they don’t last. Least of all do they define the self.
See #215.
My response is not irrelevant, since its follows that, faced with the proposition, "unless you want a world in which mankind is like a cloud or a robot, then allowing evil is a necessary good," then since you chose "Anything to avoid evil, misery, and suffering" then perhaps you only want a Stepford wife, or she should want an android.
Thus the question is whether you are being disingenuous or really want a world in which mankind is like a cloud or a robot.
We all die. That is the wages of sin. When looking at life spans versus eternity, there is no difference in the life span of a person who dies a minute after birth, or someone that lives to 123. Both life spans take up the same percentage of space on the infinite line of the space-time continuum. Both life spans contain the same amount of suffering on an infinite line as well.
To be precise, I said that natural disasters, catastrophes as he called them, are not evil because there is no moral component to them. That does not make them pleasant or fun. Just that there is no such thing as natural evil. Dying in a tornado is merely a matter of statistics, not evil. Being bitten to death by a dog is evil only in so far as the owner of the dog did not control the beast. The dog was just acting within the nature of a dog. And, the number of people die in catastrophes pale in comparison to the numbers that die at the hands of our fellows.
Suffering is a result of sin. In this fallen world we all suffer. When Adam fell all of creation fell with him. Does that mean that if Adam had never fallen, he could have never tripped on a stone and broken his leg? I do not know. But, assuming he could have, neither the process of tripping or the stone are inherently evil, they just are.
All that said, suffering can service a number of purposes.
1. It reveals to us how deep, strong, or genuine of faith in God is.
2. It is a witness to those around us of the reality of our faith
3. It allows us to remember the hope we have of a place where EVERY tear will be wiped from our eyes
None of those are things that God needs to know or be reminded of. But they are all things WE need to be reminded of. And each of those things have had actual books written about them.
Plantinga is very, very good in general, as is Craig.
“The self is not material.
If you think the self is material, you’re in error.
The self is immaterial, and it is eternal.
Pain and suffering are material, so they don’t last. Least of all do they define the self.”
You got three out of four correct—and then you blow it.
What we do here and what happens to us does matter—even to our eternal selves.
Pretty much every religion agrees on that.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.