[x]

Again, you contradict yourself, saying that people have every reason to run their state or territory as they see fit and saying that hate is their motivation if they don’t want to compete with slaves and slaveowners. You don’t see your own contradictions because if you did, you’d have to rethink your beliefs.

“The North” and “the South” were big places. It won’t do to generalize in crude ways. Plenty of free Blacks lived in the free states without problems. Conditions weren’t ideal, but if slavery was the alternative they were acceptable.

I don’t know if that supposed Lincoln quote is true. Do you have a source?

I’d trust Charles Dickens on American affairs about as much as I’d trust Katty Kay.

[BroJoeK]

x: "I’d trust Charles Dickens on American affairs about as much as I’d trust Katty Kay."

Dickens was anti-slavery, but did admire the Southern aristocracy.

And Dickens hated Northerners in general because some had printed and sold his books without ever paying him royalties for them.
So he was unwilling to ascribe noble motives to people he loathed so thoroughly.

After the Civil War, in 1867 Dickens made a second visit to American and this time was treated vastly better than the first time and earned much more money here:

[In 1867]"During his travels, he saw a change in the people and the circumstances of America.
His final appearance was at a banquet the American Press held in his honour at Delmonico's on 18 April, when he promised never to denounce America again."

When Dickens left New York the second time he was already ill and in 1869 suffered a stroke, dying in 1870, age 58.

[DiogenesLamp]

Again, you contradict yourself, saying that people have every reason to run their state or territory as they see fit and saying that hate is their motivation if they don’t want to compete with slaves and slaveowners.

I'm not understanding you. If the people of a state, let's say "Kansas", do not want slavery, and they *LIVE* in Kansas, then that should be their choice. I don't see where their reasons matter much, if that's what they want, then that's what they should get.

"Consent of the Governed" is a thing in my mind.

You don’t see your own contradictions because if you did, you’d have to rethink your beliefs.

I don't see my own contradictions because they don't look like contradictions to me. *YOU* see them, but as of yet you haven't done a very good job explaining them in such a way that *I* can see them.

I don’t know if that supposed Lincoln quote is true. Do you have a source?

Some place on the internet which claims Lincoln said it. It may be fake, but it's still pretty funny.

I’d trust Charles Dickens on American affairs about as much as I’d trust Katty Kay.

Well the odd thing is that Charles Dickens was very much an abolitionists, but he spent months touring the United States, including the South. Considering his own political beliefs, he should be pretty objective in his opinion on the matter.

Speaking against your own interest is usually considered credible in the legal system.

[DiogenesLamp]

I don’t know if that supposed Lincoln quote is true. Do you have a source?

Found this:

"Speaking at Worcester, Massachusetts, in September 1848, Abraham Lincoln made an impromptu reference to the slain abolitionist Elijah Lovejoy that shocked some people in the audience: "I have heard you have abolitionists here. We have a few in Illinois and we shot one the other day." Forced into Glory: by Lerone Bennett "