Fun and Games with ChatGPT... which I now call 'ShatGPT'.

In comparison of any 2 groups, whether black and white,tall and short, fat and skinny, talk french or swahili there are differences.

Sometimes the difference is relevant to the role. Pro-basketball player, etc. But many times outward appearance is irrelevant.

In my Data Warehouse role, outward appearance is irrelevant. It happens that the sharpest person on my team is black. (I am probably second sharpest and white.)

The skin color group is irrelvant. The same is true in the vast majority of cases. One of the least competent people on my team is also black. Skin color is irrelevant to it.

Genes, good diet during pregnancy, motivation to learn and education are the major determinants in skill in most professions. Genes? The sins of the father have impact to the 3rd and 4th generation.

The roles where tall, short, fat, skinny, black, white is relevant is very, very few compared to all the roles where they are all irrelevant.

“The skin color group is irrelvant.”

I see why you have trouble grasping the race problem. You think that its about the skin color.

People are not prejudiced against what we call “blacks” because of their skin color - it’s what’s CORRELATED with that skin color (and other features such as face, hair etc) that is crucial. And tragically one of the thing that is correlated with that group is that that group’s AVERAGE IQ is a full standard deviation lower than those that we identify as whites. And IQ correlates quite strongly with success in life. (There are other attributes as well that correlate with success)

Those we identify as Asians on the other hand have a somewhat higher group AVERAGE IQ than whites.

And, by the way, to return to skin color, many Indians (from India) are as dark and even darker than most blacks, but nobody confuses them as blacks, because Indian faces are like white faces except darker, so they’re easily identifiable as being other than black. This is another example that the prejudice against black is not simply because of their skin color. Thus Indians don’t face such prejudice. And Indians in the US have a quite high IQ and as you know they are doing rather well here

Now you might say, who gives a crap about averages and distributions of IQ of the various group. I deal with individuals and using my judgement I only deal with who I perceive as being good and smart, regardless of what group they belong to.

And that’s fine and laudable. But society as a whole doesn’t have the luxury of selecting only the good and bright of each group. We, as a society, have to deal with the whole distribution of the population of each group.

And what are the consequences of that?

Let’s assume that there is absolutely no discrimination of people whether at work or at school. Given the significant IQ differences between blacks and whites...

- which group do you think will end up having the most of the menial jobs?

- which group do you think will do worse at school and have the most dropouts?

- which group will occupy most the lower economic rungs of society?

I’m going to guess that you will say the identifiable group with the significantly lower IQ.

Now (we’re almost at the end) given these real life results, how do you think members of the group that in their eyes is getting shafted are going to react?

Do you think they might get a bit upset at seeing so many of their “brothers” (including themselves) doing so poorly in society, especially when they’re constantly told that on average there are no significant differences among the races?

Do you think they might start raising hell, riot and demand “justice”?

Is that not what we’ve been seeing throughout most of our history and even more so today? And that that will only continue?

And what about the easily bamboozled and guilted, pathologically compassionate whites who also see these same big discrepancies in performance, are they not going to join force with the “oppressed” group and always cave to whatever the oppressed group demands for more welfare reparations, etc?

Is this not the state we find ourselves today?

To put all this in a nutshell, here’s the rule I’ve come up with...

“Two groups of people who...
1. have a significant difference in AVERAGE IQ, and
2. whose members can be easily identified as belong to one or the other group,
will never be able to live in peaceful coexistence.

(Both conditions have to exist for this to be true)

Do you agree? If not tell me where I went wrong.

I guess my upbringing just didn’t learn about the group-think that dominates your world-view.

I grew up south of Seattle WA in an areas of many East and SE Asians, Native Americans (we called them Indians back then), many Swedes, a few Mexicans and Blacks and a few of every other “group” you can name. But I didn’t learn to think of these as “groups” Until I came to Chicago at age 20.

To the extent we thought of “group” we saw Catholics, Main stream Protestants and Fundamentalists, Bhuddists, etc. Most East Asians were Protestant. Most Fillipinos were Catholic. As a child, I worked the farm fields where my bosses were Catholic Fillipinos and Japanese Bhuddists. So they were “more” due to proximity. Both the Japanese and Filipinos immigrated to the US in 1930s. But the Filipinos held it against the Japanese that they invaded the Fillipines after both types of immigrants had left the homeland.

All of us kids of all nationalities that worked the fields saw it as illogical and weird that people who rejected the old country were still blamed for what those in the old country did.

My Dad’s best friend was a WWII vet who lost an eye. He was a one-eyed Greyhound Bus mechanic and a very good Bus driver.
He was admired by many for that. He also happened to be a Nisqually Indian who bagged deer with both rifle and bow.
His individual achievements way overshadowed his ethnicity.

I came to Chicago at age 20 and was shocked. The Poles, Irish and Italians were in 3 distinct and separate groups. The street gangs were ethnic. The Poles clearly divided into 2 religious groups.. 1) PNA where the clergy were servants and 2) PNA where the clergy were masters.

I was active in an Alinsky neighborhood group NCO Northwest Community Organization. It was easier to bring together for common action the extreme left (YPSL, YSA and right John Birchers) than mainline Democrat Italians and Democrat Irish. The PNA Republicans (and me) were Goldwater libertarian Republicans. We were the glue that held the Democrat groups together.

I learned group-think as if Margaret Mead anthropoligist looking in from the outside. I never aceppted it. It was not only Democrat think...It was the worst kind of Democrat, the mindless obedient machine Democrat.

2013 I moved to GA. It is interesting to see the Democrats who switched parties but still have that group think and are now in the Republican Party, which also has a wing that lacks (for the most part) that group think.

Republican economic policies created many jobs in GA, as they did in other Red States. Democrat economic policies killed jobs in many northern states. So jobless Democrats who want to work and not go on welfare voted against Democrat economics and for Republican economics in moving to jobs in GA.

Enough of these Democrat immigrants are ripe for switching to the Republican party, especially and economics, but also on guns and maybe other social issues. But the GA Republicans who used to be Democrats and still have Democrat Group-think are extremely unfriendly toward these potential converts.

The result is that red GA is turning Blue. The Republican issues are on our side. But half the GA Republican party is not ready to accept them.

Two Trump backed high profile candidates Vernon Jones and Herschel Walker faced this. The Democrat media, of course, race baited the half of Republicans that retain the Group-think. So Republicans who would normally be expected to back a Trump driven candidate did not vote for the Trump candidate. They could not get over their group-think that they acquired as a kid.

I appreciate you sharing your life story, very interesting. But I have to say, I’m not sure I understand how it relates to what I said in my previous post regarding AVERAGE GENETIC differences between groups and the impact that can have on society and peaceful coexistence.

And regarding “group-think”, if you think my views and opinions come from whatever group I may identify with, you couldn’t be further from the truth. I march to the beat of my own drum. My world view is dictated by my lying eyes, life’s experience and facts. And I tend to be my own
toughest critic... I’m my own devil’s advocate. And I enjoy engaging people who have different opinions and world views, like you for example, because it tests my beliefs and whether I should change them in light of what the other person has to offer.

The only permanent groups I belong to are “humas” “caucasians” and “males’ and that’s because of genetics. I can’t change those.

Value based groups (cultures) that I identify with are conservatives, agnostics, rationalists, realists. But those groups don’t define me, in the sense that I’m a slave to them or that they dictate my beliefs. It’s the other way around - my beliefs came first, independent of those groups.
In other words my beliefs are formed by my lying eyes, life’s experience and facts and given those beliefs then an affinity for people who have the same beliefs is formed. That’s true of most people, although there are some cultures and religious traditions (islam for example) where a belief system is forced on people and they have a hard time escaping.

My particular belief that I stated at the end of my last post to you, that...

“Two groups of people who...
1. have a significant difference in AVERAGE IQ, and
2. whose members can be easily identified as belonging to one or the other group,
will never be able to live in peaceful coexistence.

(Both conditions have to exist for this to be true)’

That doesn’t come from any group that I know, it’s my observation and my formulation. I have never seen it expressed using those two conditions that must be met. If you’ve seen it anywhere else please let me know.

I came up with it a couple of years ago, and no one that I’ve told it to has been able to discredit it. I’m more convinced of its truth than ever, for all the reasons I outlined in my last post.

It’s a tragic reality, but it’s a reality, and I wish it weren’t so, but sweeping it under the rug as we’ve been doing for decades has gotten us to the racial dystopia that we find ourselves in. I have absolutely no animosity toward any race - I’m only stating realities and conclusions that derive from that.

You keep bringing example of individuals from whatever group that in your experience were great people. No one denies that there are fine and smart people as well as dumb and vicious people of any race or group, but as I pointed out it isn’t a few individuals here and there that have societal implications, but the AVERAGE, the shape of the bell curve. You’re using the exception to make the rule!

I asked you last time whether you agreed or disagreed with my specific analysis of the race problem. I didn’t see any answer.

So I invite you again to look at my previous analysis and conclusion and tell me where I’ve gone wrong. Please be specific and address each point.

“A lot of the Anerican culture comes from the religious belief that individuals persons accept Christ as their Saviour.
That extrapolates to judge the individual, not the group.”

Sounds a lot like group-think.

And in the US you’re not allowed to judge an individual strictly as you see fit. Businesses, schools, organizations, etc. are constantly being monitored as to whether their membership reflects the general population, ie, the AVERAGE racial makeup. And if it doesn’t, hell will be made to be descended upon them. That’s where the impact of the AVERAGE is felt in a society.

By the way, you forgot once again to tell me where I went wrong with my race analysis.

Please go back to my post and examine each point I made one by one and the conclusion, and let me know where you think I went wrong.

It will be a very worthwhile exercise for you. The danger though, is that it might upset your world view. But on the plus side you might end up with one that is more based on reality - and that’s always a good thing.

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