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To: servantboy777; max americana
servantboy777: "Revisionism on full display. Was slavery an issue of contention? Certainly. Was it the cause for the Civil war? nope!"

The immediate cause of Civil War was the Confederate attack on Fort Sumter, April 12, 1861, followed by the Confederate Declaration of War on the United States, May 6, 1861.
Neither of those had anything to do, directly, with slavery.

But slavery was an important part of the "mix" from beginning to end -- from Confederate "Reasons for Secession" documents to Union "Contraband of War" laws, to the Emancipation Proclamation to the 13th Amendment.
So claims that try to minimize the role of slavery are a-historical.

servantboy777: "In fact, the overwhelming majority of those brave and honorable men fighting for the cause of the South were too damn poor to own slaves.
So, what was it they were fighting to preserve?"

The usual estimate going back to Civil War times is that about 25% of Confederate soldiers came from slaveholding families. Units from the Deep South had more slaveholders, those from Upper South & Border States had fewer.
One problem with even this 25% estimate is that very few Confederate soldiers came from regions in the Confederacy with few to no slaves. Such regions typically supported the Union cause.

So even when Confederate soldiers did not themselves own slaves, most had family members and close neighbors who did own slaves and whose "way of life" depended on slavery.
So those soldiers felt a vested interest in their "peculiar institution" beyond simply their need to defend their homeland.

servantboy777: "Because of revisionism, most do not realize the so called great emancipator Lincoln” before the war and the great Northern general Grant after the war both sought to recolonizing the negro back to Afrika, Caribbean and Puerto Rico.
They believed the negro would likely not assimilate into American society."

The word for that is "recolonization" and it was official US government policy, supported by many Presidents and state governments beginning around 1820.
From roughly 1820 until the Civil War, huge sums of money were appropriated by the Federal government and state governments to support "recolonizing" freed slaves to, primarily, Liberia in Africa.

The results were always disappointing -- the numbers who volunteered to go were few, and most of them died within a few years of arriving in Africa, or elsewhere.
But the efforts continued and did not end until Lincoln's much larger projects failed on a larger scale.
And by then African-American leaders were telling their government they didn't want to "recolonize" Africa, rather they wanted full citizenship in the United States.

And so that's just what happened, eventually.

servantboy777: "Furthermore, Lincoln himself wrote to newspaper editor Horace Greeley his intentions regarding the war of Northern aggression. Preserve the Union at all costs. Freed slaves or NOT."

What Lincoln actually did in office was free as many slaves as he believed he lawfully could, beginning with compensated emancipation in Washington, DC, and "Contraband of War" confiscations, progressing to the much larger Emancipation Proclamation and then the 13th Amendment.

servantboy777: "Most do not realize that at one point, there were more white slaves than black."

But no white "slaves" in North America ever endured the degradation of permanent inherited chattel slavery based solely on their race.
The typical "white slave" was an indentured servant who had contracted for a period of years to work off their debts.
The other major category were convicted prisoners serving long sentences, to be freed if they survived their term.

servantboy777: "It was the black man who first sold the black man into slavery."

Because there was a market for slaves, with white buyers -- the buyers came first, the slaves were captured to satisfy their demands. No reason to sugar-coat any of this.

343 posted on 08/02/2022 8:27:07 AM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: BroJoeK

Appreciate the input. Interesting to read the perspective of a Northerner. Not being sarcastic. Good debate.

So that it is clear, slavery was repugnant. The U.S. has done more in our own country to right the wrong of this era than any country around the world to this day. Yet there is still this victim mentality among blacks today. Victimhood fomented by guilty white liberals and perpetuated by hapless keystone republicans.

Say what you will, it was the African native that enslaved and sold their own countrymen. It was the spoils of tribal conflict. Conquer rival tribes, take their possessions, choice woman, children, animals and the rest went up for barter/sale.

Northern states enjoyed slavery for many years as well, so not all hands are clean in this regard. To some extent, the policy of recolonization was bred from thoughts of superiority to the black man by those who supported the ideology. The ideology held by Lincoln and President Grant among many others.

As to the start of the civil war, the broader point I make is the federals were back then and are now doing what they do, controlling every single aspect of a citizen’s life.

Southerners had endured the heavy hand of the federals and they’d had had enough.

States’ rights were being trampled. Over taxation and regulation. The federal government’s attempts to thwart the Southern states from trading with European countries for farm needs led to angst in Southerners.

Again, the overwhelming majority of Southerners did not own or hold slaves. They were fighting for their way of life against federal overreach and yes, slave labor was part of that. Many were farming and needed labor to keep these operations going...incidentally agriculture to help feed/cloth the nation.

And so here we are. 160 years later still dealing with federal overreach, over taxation, monumental federal fiscal mismanagement, screwed up foreign policy and all the woke nonsense from both democrats and republicans at the federal level.

The same sorts up in D.C., republican and democrat, from the North and the South still supporting slavery by striking trade deals, sending billions in aid to countries that to this day still enslave their citizens. Some countries very brutally...hint, hint...Communist Chinese.

I find it a bit hypocritical all this talk about “white supremacy” particularly when millions in this country walk around sporting athletic apparel and shoes manufactured with slave labor. lol

Back then until now Aug, 4th 2022....It’s all about STATES RIGHTS. Federalism has been circumvented by unelected, extra constitutional federal bureaucratic agencies with thousands upon thousands of burrowed bureaucrats working night and day to regulate OUR behavior.

My point today lends validity to my ancestor’s contentions of the pre-war era before the beginning of the war of Northern aggression.

Are we as Americans today still supporting slavery with the off shoring of American manufacturing? Here is a link or two that may help answer that question.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-CJB-9896

http://www.endslaverynow.org/act/action-library/learn-about-forced-labor-in-china

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/10/slavery-persists-in-saudi-arabia

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/signs-of-forced-labor-found-in-chinas-ev-battery-supply-chain-report.html


521 posted on 08/04/2022 6:21:01 AM PDT by servantboy777
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