Posted on 07/28/2022 4:54:15 PM PDT by freedomjusticeruleoflaw
Ukraine is not a member of NATO
The USA has no moral obligation to get involved.
I can assure you we’re all real folks and we really oppose your deranged warmongering agenda.
Ping list for those opposing the warmongering Soros/globalist agenda on FR.
I sure did and I apologize
Our media is more captured too
And voluntarily not at the point of a bayonet
I think it’s a reasoned question, but I also think we are a
third party and there are actually questions that supersede
this one.
This question would not have even had to be asked, if
Russia had not invaded.
I don’t want U. S. troops on the ground there.
I don’t want any U. S. citizens there.
If we are going to help the Ukraine, make it cost
effective and reasoned.
IMO < tossing $40 billion at the problem was excessive.
We could have protected our border for another $15-$20
billion.
Not only that, we keep seeing $1 billion dollar additions
to that $40 billion.
The same people who voted against our wall, were all in
on the Ukraine package.
I don’t get that.
I agree with your point but I have not power to declare war or such engagement.
I did think the Ukrainians are trying their best to defend themselves and defeat the Russians.
I genuinely believe that if the Ukrainians did exactly everything FR posters supporting Russia recommend, Russia would invade the next country on their list of European domination.
It is foolish to believe that Putin has limited designs on Europe.
It is natural to want to be left alone and perfectly rational. It can only be achieved through deterrence. Biden is pretty bad at that.
Trump has said he would be more aggressive than Biden in Ukraine.
He is right about that and you are wrong to wish he would not.
All of this is a function of American weakness so showing Putin weakness will not restore the world or protect America.
We did support ISIS at times— that was stupid.
I am fine with Israel being allowed to act upon Assad. But the US must not restrain them.
You are right that the media would attack Trump no matter what.
But we all need to be honest about what Trump would likely do if he were President. It is highly unlikely he would show Putin the weakness that so many on this thread are looking for.
Popular advisers like Sebastian Gorka do not indicate the appeasement vision so often promoted here at FR.
In the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, the United States, Russia, and Britain committed “to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine” and “to refrain from the threat or use of force” against the country. Those assurances played a key role in persuading the Ukrainian government in Kyiv to give up what amounted to the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal, consisting of some 1,900 strategic nuclear warheads.
It is foolish to believe that Putin has limited designs on Europe.
It is natural to want to be left alone and perfectly rational. It can only be achieved through deterrence. Biden is pretty bad at that.
I do not agree with your opinion with no bases in fact.
Putin, as a KGB agent was one of the very few Russians privileged to study the United States in depth. He was able to see the strengths in all facets of our nation. When the Soviet Union fell, he obviously copied what he knew would bring them into the modern world.
The Russia that Putin is building is not the overthrow and conquer state of the failed International Communist Union which oppressed and terrorized Russians at all levels.
It is more foolish to believe that Germany or France does not have designs on Europe. The EU is the untrustworthy state that has been gobbling up eastern Europe. In the face of that, it is no wonder that Russia does not trust the EU (with our help) gobbling up the Ukraine.
Threatened by an uprising of his treacherous generals, the Christian Emperor Basil II, based in the glorious city of Byzantium, reached out to his enemies, the pagans over in the land of the Rus. Basil II was a clever deal maker. If Vladimir of the Rus would help him put down the revolt, he would give him the hand of his sister in marriage. This was a status changer for Vladimir: the marriage of a pagan to an imperial princess was unprecedented. But first Vladimir would have to convert to Christianity.Returning to Kyev in triumph, Vladimir proceeded to summon the whole city to the banks of the river Dnieper for a mass baptism. The year is 988. This is the founding, iconic act of Russian Orthodox Christianity. It was from here that Christianity would spread out and merge with the Russian love of the motherland, to create a powerful brew of nationalism and spirituality. In the mythology of 988, it was as if the whole of the Russian people had been baptised. Vladimir was declared a saint. When the Byzantine empire fell, the Russians saw themselves as its natural successor. They were a “third Rome”.
At the heart of this post-Soviet revival of Christianity is another Vladimir. Vladimir Putin. Many people don’t appreciate the extent to which the invasion of Ukraine is a spiritual quest for him. The Baptism of Rus is the founding event of the formation of the Russian religious psyche, the Russian Orthodox church traces its origins back here. That’s why Putin is not so much interested in a few Russian-leaning districts to the east of Ukraine. His goal, terrifyingly, is Kyev itself.
He was born in Leningrad — a city that has reclaimed its original saint’s name — to a devout Christian mother and atheist father. His mother baptised him in secret, and he still wears his baptismal cross. Since he became President, Putin has cast himself as the true defender of Christians throughout the world, the leader of the Third Rome. His relentless bombing of ISIS, for example, was cast as the defence of the historic homeland of Christianity. And he will typically use faith as a way to knock the West, like he did in this speech in 2013:
Putin is a Russian nationalist. He is using the Russian Orthodox Church to advance the interests of the state, not because he is a true believer.
Prove it.
Like how many of our Presidents of the past seventy years advanced the interests of the state, not because they were true believers?
Putin is a thug. He grew up and spent his years as a KGB agent in atheist Soviet Union. Plus Russians are known for lying. Putin says he is a believer. But his actions show otherwise.
His actions show he is a believer.
Look at the maps for over four hundred years. The Ukraine is part of historical Russia.
Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire. They gained independence in 1991. They signed an agreement in 1994 to give up their nuclear weapons, USA was part of that agreement. Russia broke the agreement so we are justified in arming Ukraine.
I stand corrected.
Trump is on record saying it wouldn’t have happened on his watch
And that he’d have made a deal by now
Giving the vast majority Russian ethnics in the Donbas their wishes is hardly appeasement
Nor is taking the time to glean info all around
Frankly and I know you won’t believe this
But reports from the west are less reliable than from the east
Our media voluntarily self propagandizes when not forced to
The do it for the clarion call of the narrative
I could try to inform you the history there but it’s 99% of the time a waste here
I have never ever seen our media lie so
Never
I think Russian media is definitely less accurate than western media.
Dissent is not a reasonable possibility in Russia.
Putin has nuclear weapons aimed at the U.S.
Ukraine does not.
I think Putin’s war in Ukraine is falling apart and I think we will soon have a new leader in Russia.
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