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No, the Woke Won’t Debate You. Here’s Why.
New Discourses ^ | 30 Jul, 2021 | JAMES LINDSAY

Posted on 08/08/2021 4:59:01 AM PDT by MtnClimber

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked why it is that the Woke won’t seem to have a debate or discussion about their views, and I’ve been meaning to write something about it for ages, probably a year at this point. Surely you’ll have noticed that they don’t tend to engage in debates or conversation?

It is not, as many think, a fear of being exposed as fraudulent or illegitimate—or otherwise of losing the debate or looking bad in the challenging conversation—that prevents those who have internalized a significant amount of the Critical Social Justice Theory mindset that prevents these sorts of things from happening. There’s a mountain of Theoretical reasons that they would avoid all such activities, and even if those are mere rationalizations of a more straightforward fear of being exposed as fraudulent or losing, they are shockingly well-developed and consistent rationalizations that deserve proper consideration and full explanation.

I often get asked specifically if there’s some paper or book out there in the Critical Social Justice literature that prohibits or discourages debate and conversation with people who don’t already agree with them. I honestly don’t know. I’ve looked in a cursory fashion and haven’t found one, but, then, Critical Social Justice scholars are also rather incredibly prolific (an undeniable benefit of having no rigorous standards to meet and a surplus of ideological zeal, as it happens). That is to say, there’s a lot of Woke literature out there, and maybe someone has explained it very clearly and at length with a lot of specificity, but if so, I haven’t seen it. So far as I know, there’s not some specific piece of scholarship that closes the Woke off to debate, like a single paper or book explaining why they don’t do it. It’s just part of the Woke mindset not to do it, and the view of the world that informs that mindset can be read throughout their scholarship.

There are a number of points within Critical Social Justice Theory that would see having a debate or conversation with people of opposing views as unacceptable, and they all combine to create a mindset where that wouldn’t be something that adherents to the Theory are likely or even willing to do in general. This reticence, if not unwillingness, to converse with anyone who disagrees actually has a few pretty deep reasons behind it, and they’re interrelated but not quite the same. They combine, however, to produce the first thing everyone needs to understand about this ideology: it is a complete worldview with its own ethics, epistemology, and morality, and theirs is not the same worldview the rest of us use. Theirs is, very much in particular, not liberal. In fact, theirs advances itself rather parasitically or virally by depending upon us to play the liberal game while taking advantage of its openings. That’s not the same thing as being willing to play the liberal game themselves, however, including to have thoughtful dialogue with people who oppose them and their view of the world. Conversation and debate are part of our game, and they are not part of their game.

1. They Think the System Is Rigged Against Them The first thing to understand about the way adherents to Critical Social Justice view the world is just how deeply they have accepted the belief that we operate within a wholly systemically oppressive system. That system extends to literally everything, not just material structures, institutions, law, policies, and so on, but also into cultures, mindsets, ways of thinking, and how we determine what is and isn’t true about the world. In their view, the broadly liberal approach to knowledge and society is, in fact, rotted through with “white, Western, male (and so on) biases,” and this is such a profound departure from how the rest of us—broadly, liberals—think about the world that it is almost impossible to understand just how deeply and profoundly they mean this.

In a 2014 paper by the black feminist epistemology heavyweight Kristie Dotson, she explains that our entire epistemic landscape is itself profoundly unequal. Indeed, she argues that it is intrinsically and “irreducibly” so, meaning that it is not possible from within the prevailing system of knowledge and understanding to understand or know that the system itself is unfairly biased toward certain ways of knowing (white, Western, Eurocentric, male, etc.) and thus exclusionary of other ways of knowing (be those what they may). That is, Dotson explains that when we look across identity groups, not only do we find a profound lack of “shared epistemic resources” by which people can come to understand things in the same way as one another, but also that the lack extends to the ability to know that that dismal state of affairs is the case at all. This, she refers to as “irreducible” epistemic oppression, which she assigns to the third and most severe order of forms of epistemic oppression, and says that it requires a “third-order change” to the “organizational schemata” of society (i.e., a complete epistemic revolution that removes the old epistemologies and replaces them with new ones) in order to find repair.

This view is then echoed and amplified, for example, in a lesser-read 2017 paper by the Theorist Alison Bailey. Therein she invokes explicitly that in the neo-Marxist “critical” tradition, which is not to be mistaken for the “critical thinking” tradition of the Western canon, critical thinking itself and that which is seen to produce and legitimize it are part of the “master’s tools” that black feminist Audre Lorde wrote “will never dismantle the master’s house.” Since nobody ever believes me that she really writes this, here’s the quote:

The critical-thinking tradition is concerned primarily with epistemic adequacy. To be critical is to show good judgment in recognizing when arguments are faulty, assertions lack evidence, truth claims appeal to unreliable sources, or concepts are sloppily crafted and applied. For critical thinkers, the problem is that people fail to “examine the assumptions, commitments, and logic of daily life… the basic problem is irrational, illogical, and unexamined living.” In this tradition sloppy claims can be identified and fixed by learning to apply the tools of formal and informal logic correctly.


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: communism; crt; wokes
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To: MtnClimber

Counter revolution time.


61 posted on 08/08/2021 9:20:29 AM PDT by Nuc 1.1 (Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789! )
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To: MtnClimber

What we need is an intermediate debating website.

Keeping the balance would be key. You’d have to have an ideology litmus test profile (see my homepage) so you don’t have to dive down on every debater. You’d want an entrance criteria to be equal number of libtards as conservatards.

No one is able to ride that razor blade because they inevitably want to impose their own viewpoint on the interchange.


62 posted on 08/08/2021 9:26:18 AM PDT by Kevmo (Right now there are 600 political prisoners in Washington, DC.)
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To: rarestia

Thanks for the synopsis.
That’s what I thought he was saying, but I didn’t want to hedge clip my way through that jungle of overgrown, twisty vegetation.


63 posted on 08/08/2021 11:12:29 AM PDT by lee martell
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To: The Duke

Yep. An old saying goes like; Don’t get into a wrestling match with a Pig. Both of you get dirty, and the Pig actually enjoys it!”


64 posted on 08/08/2021 11:14:58 AM PDT by lee martell
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To: MtnClimber

“Critical Thinking”, as opposed to simply thinking, is a term of the Frankfurt School and their Critical Theories of everything. What it means is that if you simply criticize you can destroy anything. Never balance good with bad, just demand perfection.


65 posted on 08/08/2021 11:18:26 AM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: MtnClimber

Thank you for posting this. I went to the site and also read a couple of other articles. This has been very enlightening.


66 posted on 08/08/2021 11:32:24 AM PDT by Texaspeptoman (Even cannibals... get fed up with people sometimes.)
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To: nascarnation

Life in the USA has become one continuous SNL skit.


67 posted on 08/08/2021 3:54:46 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn...)
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