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What a ridiculous strawman argument. (And doesn’t mean all that excess death was covid - how many from alcohol and drug abuse, increased heart attack and stroke, etc and also likely pulled forward some deaths from this year.

Exactly, raw numbers are meaningless at this point. If the number is smaller maybe that means people are not driving around getting in car wrecks, having accidents at construction sites, etc. If it’s bigger maybe locking people indoors spread all kinds of diseases, increased despair and suicide, drug abuse and no exercise.
It’s not a straight across comparison.

I think it’s possible many deaths were “pulled forward” as you theorize. The virus primarily targeted the old and sick (obese, diabetic, and other chronically ill). We all know stories of young, healthy persons who died, but these are pretty rare. Evidence of reduced death rates in this and following years would support the theory.

There were ~352,000 Covid deaths reported in 2020. There were 479,000 excess deaths. that leaves 127,000 excess excess deaths-deaths above and beyond the Covid deaths. The truth of the matter is, you all told us it was a hoax, it was a cold, it was the flu, the death count was over inflated, etc.

But here we plainly see that the exact opposite is true, the true number of Covid deaths is HIGHER than the official report. and you all have the nerve to accuse someone like me of being the religious zealot here? laughable. the truth is right in front of you and you're still refusing to see it.

You were wrong then. You're wrong now. You're the gaslighting zealots here.

“The study concludes that based on data for all recorded deaths in the United States through August 23, 2020, the new CDC system counted 161,392 deaths attributed to the virus. Using the older system, the death total was 9,684.”

See National File, March 20, 2021

There are reasonable studies e.g. BU, showing about 1/3 of deaths are lockdown measures. Also COVID is a harvester, like heat waves. Old people die in heat waves and then mortality drops right after the heat wave.

(And doesn’t mean all that excess death was covid - how many from alcohol and drug abuse, increased heart attack and stroke, etc and also likely pulled forward some deaths from this year.

So, if the number is really only 425k, and not 475k, the point still stands. That people are dying from it at a substantial rate is clear-cut.

The issue here, is whether the mask-mandate and the lockdowns, for example, make an appreciable change compared to the - as you mentioned - increases in suicides and drug overdoses, as well as the effects a crippled economy, depression, and a variety of other ills.

One can still oppose the lockdowns and mask-mandates as each relatively ineffectual - even more so when compared to their costs - and meanwhile be able to do basic math and see that the disease is a substantial killer, as well as leaving several percent with additional longer-term health issues.

And it was a reasonable thing to try the lockdowns and masking last spring in some areas - but that they were ineffectual seems pretty clear since last May and there is no real excuse for them now.