Posted on 02/28/2021 5:16:20 AM PST by RandFan
Where does the conspiracy theory come from?
The belief that Trump will be sworn in on March 4 is rooted in theories promoted by the obscure sovereign citizen movement.
The sovereign citizen movement is a highly-fragmented grouping of Americans who believe taxes, US currency, and even the US government to be illegitimate.
A minority of them believe that laws do not apply to them at all, resulting in the FBI designating some members as "domestic terrorists" and "anti-government extremists."
A central tenet of the movement is that the 14th Amendment, ratified in 1868, converted "sovereign citizens" into "federal citizens."
This belief also goes so far as to dismiss the validity of any presidency after 1868, making Ulysses S. Grant the last valid president.
...
Why March 4?
Before the 20th Amendment in 1933, all presidents were sworn in on March 4.
It was introduced to shorten the "lame duck" period between elections and the start of new administrations.
Given that followers of the sovereign citizen movement reject all constitutional amendments passed after the 14th amendment, they do not view this date change as legitimate.
QAnon followers, who failed to see Trump inaugurated in January, have recycled the argument and reinvented the next legitimate inauguration date.
They say that on March 4, 2021, Trump will succeed the last legitimate president, Grant, to become the 19th president
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
It’s easier to believe the claimed 14th Amendment scenario if you instead think of the Woodrow Wilson and FDR eras imo, these Democratic presidents blatantly ignoring the federal government’s constitutionally limited powers imo.
The word “sovereign” doesn't appear in the Constitution or its amendments, so I don't know where these people are coming from with their “sovereign citizen” argument.
"Americans who believe taxes, ...”
Nineteenth century Supreme Court justices had clarified that the federal government’s constitutionally limited powers include limited power to appropriate taxes, only enough taxes to pay for Congress’s constitutional Article I, Section 8-limited power duties and a few other constitutionally enumerated expenses.
"Congress is not empowered to tax for those purposes which are within the exclusive province of the States." —Justice John Marshall, Gibbons v. Ogden, 1824.
Again, particularly since the time of FDR era, the feds have not only based domestic policy on stolen state powers, but also state revenues uniquely associated with those powers, the feds stealing state revenues by means of unconstitutional federal taxes.
"US currency, …"
First, Thomas Jefferson had noted that the delegates to the Constitutional Convention (Con-Con) had considered giving express, Section 8 power to regulate INTRAstate banking to Congress, but had decided against it.
"It is known that the very power now proposed as a means was rejected as an end by the Convention which formed the Constitution. A proposition was made to them to authorize Congress to open canals, and an amendatory one to empower them to incorporate. But the whole was rejected, and one of the reasons for rejection urged in debate was, that then they would have a power to erect a bank, which would render the great cities, where there were prejudices and jealousies on the subject, adverse to the reception of the Constitution [emphasis added]." —Thomas jefferson, Opinion on the Constitutionality of a National Bank, 1791.
Next, patriots are reminded that the delegates to the Con-Con had expressly constitutionally given Congress the specific power to make and regulate the value only of coin money, regardless whether Congress wants that power or not.
So not only did Woodrow Wilson wrongly politically repeal a part of the Constitution's Article I, Section 8, Clause 5 when he signed the bill that established the Federal Reserve into law, that clause giving Congress the specific power to regulate the value of coin money, but he also wrongly weakened citizen voting power since citizens have always indirectly had the power to regulate the value of money by electing lawmakers who have that power.
"Article I, Section 8, Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof [emphasis added], and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;"
Also, paper money is unconstitutional imo, Clause 5 also expressly giving Congress the specific power only to coin money, no specific power to print money, the states even making the Constitution’s Article I, Section 10, Clause 4 to prohibit themselves from making paper money regardless of their 10th Amendment-protected power to do so otherwise.
"Article I, Section 8, Clause 5: To coin Money [emphasis added], regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;"
"Article I, Section 10, Clause 1: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts [emphases added]; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility."
"and even the US government to be illegitimate …,”
In the context that today’s very corrupt, election stealing, Democratic-controlled federal government is wrongly basing so-called federal domestic policy on state powers that it has stolen from the states, the unconstitutionally big US government is illegitimate imo.
In fact, citizens can bet that if a federal domestic spending program is not reasonably related to the US Post Service then it is unconstitutional and win the bet probably most of the time.
"Article I, Section 8, Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;”
”From the accepted doctrine that the United States is a government of delegated powers, it follows that those not expressly granted, or reasonably to be implied from such as are conferred, are reserved to the states, or to the people. To forestall any suggestion to the contrary, the Tenth Amendment was adopted. The same proposition, otherwise stated, is that powers not granted are prohibited [emphasis added].” —United States v. Butler, 1936.
Corrections, insights welcome.
You got it! BTTT
Well, you’re wrong.
The “Trust the Plan” and “Trust Sessions” garbage turned out to be *precisely* what the Deep State critters wanted people to do, buying time for Sessions and his Swampy friends to block things and continue their nefarious activities. This is obvious as the color of the sky to anyone who opens his eyes.
I just hope the flag behind the bench doesn’t have a fringe on it! All hell would break loose!
No kidding.
Funny thing...they are moving the county courthouse proceedings to a local abandoned movie theater complex. So the judge and main players are on the stage, the jury in the front rows, and the public can socially distance throughout the rest of the theater.
That has a “twilight zone” feeling to it.
That’s a fair point.
But when I am attempting to reason with a Trump-hater and I am trying to dispel the various negative myths, it always comes down to sources.
I want to know where they get their information, and they want to know where I get my information. Right?
If I find out my Trump-hating friend mostly listens to CNN, or SNL or whatever, maybe that will explain where he picked up these false narratives, and I can try to set the record straight.
Meanwhile, my Leftist friend is trying to do the same thing. He hopes if he can prove I watch only Fox, then all he has to do is discredit Fox as biased toward the Right, and he can discredit me.
The problem is - it used to be Fox News the Left used as their go-to straw-man, to try and discredit the Right as biased. Lately, Q has become their go-to straw-man, to discredit the Right as conspiracy nut jobs.
Look, I know Q followers didn’t intend to hurt President Trump - but Q is the best thing that ever happened for the enemies of Trump - they are using Q to score easy points.
I don’t see why it’s so hard to admit that.
You don’t have to be guilty of anything, just accused. We have arrived at police state.
Liberals always tell us...it’s not guilt or innocence,
but the seriousness of the charges that matters.
Glad all public defenders are not so la-di-da.
She loves her job, and likes helping that rare “good person.” But if the defendant doesn’t want her help, there isn’t much you can do.
Her stories are funny. And, the sheer stupidity and reactionary emotions of her clients are a little unnerving.
I would have burned out years go.
I think she should switch gears and become a prosecutor.
She is being paid by the people. Her job is to defend each and every one of her clients the best way she knows how.
Belittling them can be saved for cocktail parties, and even then it wouldn’t be the best thing to do.
It doesn't matter what coded cryptic trash "Q" wrote.
The subject is what the Qtards believe.
And they believe A LOT of crazy shiznit.
Well, you have the right to your own opinions.
As do I.
“ but Q is the best thing that ever happened for the enemies of Trump - they are using Q to score easy points.”
Yeah, I simply disagree.
But I also don’t care what the left believes. They lie.
And they always will.
“ The subject is what the Qtards believe.”
And my point was simply that not everyone who believes Q believes what was written.
“ The “Trust the Plan” and “Trust Sessions” garbage turned out to be *precisely* what the Deep State critters wanted people to do, buying time for Sessions and his Swampy friends to block things and continue their nefarious activities. ”
To believe that you have to believe that Trump was totally immobilized because somewhere out there he read he should trust the plan.
Trump could’ve fired sessions anytime he chose to as president.
He did not.
No one followed Q had the authority to fire sessions.
“They need that unknown shadow figure to remain anonymous to justify their belief in him”
Yup, the truth leaves no room for the imagination.
Q Anon is the Alien visited us History Channel of the Conservative movement.
I've had a few people ask me about Q. Each one wanted to know more in a good way.
Q in my opinion is a source for news using guerrilla marketing. They're humans that make mistake like any news source does and they're anonymous. no one in their right might would take an anonymous post seriously without looking themselves.
I was just looking at a fly through video on Americasvoice.news of the CPAC crowd, including the crowds outside. I saw thousands of Trump signs, Trump t-shirts and MAGA hats, American flags, etc..
Because of our conversation I thought I’d look for Q paraphernalia - I think I caught one Q t-shirt - I’m not saying there weren’t more - I just didn’t see anything.
I really don’t think Q is a significant percentage of Trump supporters in reality. The enemies of Trump want everyone to believe we are all Q fanatics - and of course the Q fans want to think they are a huge element.
Sorry, I just don’t see it. I know hundreds of Trump supporters and only a handful of them are Q people - including my own sister and brother and law!
“Why do you think Q is 100% discredited?”
Because Q people keep moving the goalpost. The article says March 4. Now it’s April 30? When that date passes, no doubt there will be a new date for when The Plan comes to fruition. That’s what Q followers do.
Q followers are discredited for the same reason that Charlie Brown should stop trusting Lucy with the football.
But none of that is really important - what is important is the reputation Q followers have earned as kooky conspiracy theories. Q followers tend to use a “faith alone” doctrine - “Trust the Plan”.
When you talk like that, and send secret coded messages, and act like you have intel that you don’t really have, and you can’t say who your sources are, you are young to come off as a cult.
Q followers come off as being cultish conspiracy theorists and then they try to glom onto Trump’s popularity and his America First movement.
I think Trump would be wise to distance himself from Q followers - his popularity and his message and his political success have nothing to do with Q.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.