LOL
Posted on 10/24/2020 6:42:15 PM PDT by Hojczyk
Results will be published "as soon as a journal is brave enough," researcher says.
Danish study has reportedly been ready for months
In spite of their now-ubiquitous presence in most of the Western world today, relatively little evidence exists to support widespread use of face-masking to prevent the spread of respiratory disease. A 2019 World Health Organization review of pandemic mitigation measures, for instance, found "no evidence" that face coverings helped to stop the spread of influenza.
Whether or not studies on influenza transmission can apply to COVID-19 is unknown; the disease's relatively recent emergence means that scientific studies on it are in short supply. Studies can take many month to secure funding, develop methodologies, carry out experiments, interpret the findings, write a research paper and get it peer-reviewed and published.
To bridge that gap, a team of Danish scientists earlier this year sought to carry out a major randomized controlled trial study to determine how effective masks might be at stopping COVID transmission. The study, begun in April, involved around 6,000 Danish citizens, half of whom wore face coverings during "normal behavior" and the other half of whom went without them.
The study concluded in June. Yet the Copenhagen newspaper Berlingske reported this week that it has been rejected by at least three elite medical journals so far — the Lancet, the New England Journal of Medicine, and JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association.
"They all said no," Christian Torp-Pederson, one of the study's researchers, told the Danish newspaper this week. He added that the study's scientists "cannot start discussing what [the journals] are dissatisfied with, because in that case we must also explain what the study showed, and we do not want to discuss that until it is published."
(Excerpt) Read more at justthenews.com ...
Nobody is claiming they are 100% effective, but they are effective to a large degree.
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That sounds scientific.
Maybe if everybody had masked up for 3 weeks at the beginning we would have wiped it out then, ...
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New Zealand has one of the most draconian lockdowns. It is also one of the most isolated countries on the planet. It looked like they had magically avoided COVID. But ultimately it got thru. So now you have a population with zero herd immunity that remains fully vulnerable to Covid.
re: asymptomatic spreaders.
Yes, but the way viruses work and survive is by causing their hosts to spread them. And the most common ways are things like coughing, sneezing, puking, and other uncontrollable body fluid discharges.
If you are asymptomatic, then you are also not spreading - at least not in any efficient manner.
And the important part of the scientific process is to test a theory, if masks work, by measured data. We now have measured data and what does the data tell us? Apparently we are not allowed to know.
It is the science baby.
Is an asymptomatic person less contagious than a person with the full on virus? I would think so. Especially if the person’s immune system has fought off the virus.
Well gee, I have read about every credible report on the effectiveness of masks. I haven’t come across one that show masks slow the spread. Please cite support of your statement, but remember, credible report is the key.
Familiar slogan; where have I heard that before? No matter.
Except you aren't just talking about your body. You are talking about other people that you might infect.
"They restrict my breathing and I already have low oxygenation issues requiring surgical intervention to reduce."
So wouldn't it be great if we had herd immunity for people like you that can't wear masks? Because until we get a vaccine that enough people will take and have enough recovered people with immunity, masks are our herd immunity. Have you looked into those lightweight portable oxygen tanks that purify/filter air and provide oxygen?
"Most masks are useless."
Patently untrue. Most masks provide some measure of protection. It's not an on-off switch like the anti-maskers insinuate, it is a gradient based on quality.
"She works as the one who does the intake at a hospital emergency room. She has to wear a mask and is regularly exposed to covid. She’s been exposed since the beginning, and hasn’t contracted it."
Thank her for her service. Although, this suggests that masks do, in fact, work to some degree. Perhaps she was lucky enough to have been asymptomatic and is now immune. In any case, I can provide as many anecdotes about people that were only briefly exposed one time and still got it. Anecdotal evidence is only evidence of anecdotes.
"Additionally, she’s in the military and has had a series of vaccines that the average civilian doesn’t receive. I don’t know if any of those vaccines have contributed to her not contracted covid."
Entirely possible, but that introduces variables that don't apply to most people and that takes more away from your argument than it contributes. Being in the military and pregnant and a mask wearer (who probably knows how to do it properly) and young enough to be all those things likely makes a big difference. Has she been tested at all? And thank her for her service in that regard as well.
"It’s been reported that 85% of covid victims were faithful mask wearers."
I've heard some of those claims. They go with the 6% fallacy. The real question is, how many people that didn't (refused to) wear masks were they exposed to? Masks are mostly to protect others *from* you. If those others don't give a damn about you, you are likely screwed.
"So far I am covid free...testing proves it. I rarely ever get flu. When the kids were in school, that was a different story. It showed me that the unnatural environment of school was/is unhealthy."
Those wonderful little disease reservoirs. I have six. I personally am not worried for myself. Just about everything I have ever caught died horribly. But I know a lot of older folks from church and I know plenty of other vulnerable types. I simply want to protect them. Kind of a golden rule thing, that a disappointingly large number of the people here are willing to rationalize away any adherence to.
Thanks for posting a reasonable argument instead of the typical self-absorbed nastiness that many seem to think is required. On that note, I will let reasonable people open to persuasion evaluate my arguments and the trolls can troll on. Have an awesome night.
The good news...masks do not restrict air flow, so “they” tell us.
Might explain why masks don’t work against corona...
It’s an air borne virus, which will travel through a mask with the same air the “powers that be” assure us will protect us.
Beware, the longer this is perpetuated, the grip of fear will continue to paralyze and surpass the nobility of loving your neighbor. It will imprison, consume and destroy...
Risk, for many is synomous with fear and fear, left unchallenged paralyzes and destroys.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/
Reporter Daniel Horowitz is all over the mask issue.
Here’s a link to his latest story. And if you have 50 minutes, listen to the included podcast:
https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-danish-newspaper-reveals-largest-study-masks-rejected
Among other arguments, Horowitz points out that improperly worn masks may become breeding grounds for harmful bacteria - in other words, worse than useless.
My personal opinion — and this comes after reviewing quite a few scientific papers written before the crisis and presumably free of political bias — is that the evidence for mask efficacy is weak, at best.
I’ve noted from various sources this vital question: If masks are effective against viruses, why hasn’t the CDC recommended them in the past as a safety measure against seasonal flu? Why are masks effective against one viral infection but not the other?
Makes no sense to me.
Combine that with the discomfort and dehumanizing effects of masks, I refuse to wear one except under duress.
I’ve alienated some people as a result — but fair-weather friends I can find any day of the week.
That one’s getting sent out. hehehe
Really, folks conflating wearing masks with some sort of imprisonment are silly. Put the tinfoil down!
“Tinfoil” is always the excuse. No, it is the one dimensional thinker that is the danger.
Remember originally, we were told that they don’t work for the public at large, and health care workers needed them (because of certain medical procedures)? Did people really believe that-just like toilet paper people were stocking up on masks.
Since I had masks on hand anyway, I thought I’d use them if I went anywhere.
Trying it out at home - it made me dizzy and I felt like I was suffocating. So I did some research. Doesn’t really help and can have negative impacts.
Apparently it’s more important to keep your distance and practice good hygiene. So most of the time I don’t wear one.
I do wonder if the use of cloth masks/scarfs was somewhat driven by the psychological need for people and stop the drain on medical PPE.
So here’s one article I ran across.
Dr. Denis G Rancourt, PhD
researchgate.net
Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:47 UTC
The Science is Conclusive: Masks and Respirators do NOT Prevent Transmission of Viruseshttps://www.sott.net/article/434796-The-Science-is-Conclusive-Masks-and-Respirators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses
PHD’s Comment: The following review of the scientific literature on wearing surgical and other facemasks as a means of preventing the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and thus preventing contraction of ‘Covid-19’ was published a month ago. And absent some miraculous suspension of decades of hard science on the transmission of viruses, it’s settled...
ABSTRACT
Masks and respirators do not work. There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks and respirators do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles. ...
Precautionary Principle turned on its head with masks
In light of the medical research, therefore, it is difficult to understand why public-health authorities are not consistently adamant about this established scientific result, since the distributed psychological, economic and environmental harm from a broad recommendation to wear masks is significant, not to mention the unknown potential harm from concentration and distribution of pathogens on and from used masks.
In this case, public authorities would be turning the precautionary principle on its head.
...
Dr. Graham, a surgeon of 30 years, stated that surgical masks, homemade masks, and kerchiefs do the following: 1)they allow free passage both ways (in and out), of Covid 19 virions 2) they become a warm damp or moist reservoir of Covid 19 particles.3)These absurd masks encourage the fomite transmissions of the virus.
The Dr. concludes:
“So go ahead an allow idiots to delude and misinform you to the false sense of security —and danger— of masks”.
MASK-FACTS—THEY-DON'T WORK — THE DISADVANTAGES
Randomized Controlled Trial: N95s vs medical masks in health care workers (HCWs) against influenza (2019).
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214
2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons.
Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators (8.2%) vs medical masks (7.2%) resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza. 90% said they wore the mask all the time.
Review of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza (March 2020, China).
https://doi.org/10.1111/jebm.12381
6 randomized controlled trials (RCTs) involving 9,171 participants were included (2015-2020). There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks.
Austrian observation (August 2020)
https://corona-transition.org/maskenpflicht-brachte-in-osterreich-keinerlei-messbaren-nutzen (in German)
The introduction, retraction and re-introduction of mandatory face masks in Austria had no influence at all on the infection rate.
News report (August 13, 2020)
https://sentinelksmo.org/more-deception-kdhe-hid-data-to-justify-mask-mandate/
In Kansas, the 90 counties without mask mandates had lower coronavirus infection rates than the 15 counties with mask mandates. To hide this fact, the Kansas health department tried to manipulate the official statistics and data presentation.
Negative Effects of Masks
Air inside the mask is definitely stale. In filtering particles, the mask makes it harder to breathe.
Decreased PaO2
Stanford engineers estimated that N95 masks cause a 5% to 20% reduction in O2 intake. This can cause dizziness and lightheadedness. This can be life-threatening for someone with lung disease or with respiratory distress.
https://engineering.stanford.edu/magazine/article/covid-19-prompts-team-engineers-rethink-humble-face-mask
Health care worker study (2005, Scandinavia)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16441251/
37.3% reported face-mask-associated headaches, 32.9% reported headache frequency >6 times per month. 7.6% had taken sick leave from March 2003 to June 2004 (mean 2 days; range 1-4 days) and 59.5% required use of abortive analgesics because of headache.
Health care worker study (2009, Japan) with similar headache results as Scandinavian study (above).
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19216002/
Observations during SARS suggested double-masking and other practices increased the risk of infection because of moisture, liquid diffusion.
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/pdf/bmjopen-2014-006577.pdf
Recent study (in German) cultured 82 bacterial colonies & 4 mold (fungoid) colonies from a child’s masks after 8 hours of wear.
https://twitter.com/MMaccruiskeen/status/1307266527662669825?s=20
“Mask mouth”
Reported by dentists. https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/mask-mouth-is-a-seriously-stinky-side-effect-of-wearing-masks/ ;
Wearing masks increases dryness, which leads to decrease in saliva. It is the saliva that fights bacteria. Result is decaying teeth, receding gum lines and seriously sour breath. Gum disease — or periodontal disease — will eventually lead to strokes and an increased risk of heart attacks.”
World Health Organization (WHO), June 2020
https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/332293/WHO-2019-nCov-IPC_Masks-2020.4-eng.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
“The likely disadvantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the general public include:
potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands;
potential self-contamination that can occur if non- medical masks are not changed when wet or soiled. This can create favourable conditions for microorganism to amplify;
potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used;
potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for long hours;
difficulty with communicating clearly;
potential discomfort;
a false sense of security, leading to potentially lower adherence to other critical preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene;
poor compliance with mask wearing, in particular by young children;
waste management issues; improper mask disposal leading to increased litter in public places, risk of contamination to street cleaners and environment hazard;
difficulty communicating for deaf persons who rely on lip reading;
disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.
Psychological Damage in Children (September 11, 2020).
https://www.world-today-news.com/70-doctors-in-open-letter-to-ben-weyts-abolish-mandatory-mouth-mask-at-school-belgium/
70 Belgian doctors begged for cancellation of mask mandate at school.
‘The mandatory mouth mask in schools is a major threat to their development. It ignores the essential needs of the growing child. The well-being of children and young people is highly dependent on the emotional connection with others.
The mouth mask obligation, on the other hand, makes the school a threatening and unsafe environment, where emotional connection becomes difficult. ‘In addition, there is no large-scale evidence that wearing face masks in a non-professional environment has any positive effect on the spread of viruses, let alone on general health.
*******************
I am against a national mandate. Missouri has a number of counties that have had less than 100 cases for the entire time — mandating masks for such counties is totally not needed. The Democrat Urban areas of course do have mandates here-so we don't voluntarily go to the city.
Our county has had less than 100 hospitalizations and only 14 deaths. Many of those were from a congregational setting related to nursing homes, prison, and school graduation.
Plus the politicians and bureaucrats need to get their nose out of what the Dr. and patient feel is the best treatment for this disease. Ridiculous that Governors overruled what Dr. would be allowed to write prescriptions for.
I believe the only thing a typical mask does is acts like a catcher’s mitt for some of the aerosols and droplets if someone coughs or sneezes. Otherwise, unless the entire perimeter of the mask is sealed to your skin, it is largely useless. Why? Because the air we inhale and exhale takes the path of least resistance, and that is through the gaps between your skin and the mask. There is a video (link below) on YouTube of a doctor showing how various masks behave this way. Personal experience would also prove this in that eyeglasses would not steam up if the unsealed mask worked correctly.
In the end, I also believe that unsealed masks are giving people a false sense of security. So if one person is fairly contagious and is in close proximity to someone else for a length of time, the virus will be passed on through the aerosols released through the gaps during normal or heavy breathing (singing, exercising, having sex, ...) or if that person coughs or sneezes.
Unless everyone seals the mask to their face, the best thing to do is get a small-enough viral load so as to build up antibodies for protection, all the while remaining asymptomatic.
And having those one-way aisles? Think of a steam train. It would be better to be going in the opposite direction rather than following it.
Don't forget the directive “First do no harm.”
Surgical masks are a security blanket regarding SARS-CoV-2. Now, because science has been politicized, we have to resort to common sense and past experience more for making decisions.
We are in a lot more danger from politicized science than we will ever be from not wearing surgical masks for normal everyday activities.
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