Corona Virus Daily Thread #32

[Mariner]

Yesterday's thread here:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3829536/posts?page=1

[Mariner]

New daily thread here:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3830232/posts?page=1

[amorphous]

Spain's percentage of new deaths to total deaths rose today.

I must be getting color blind, or senile. It was France whose numbers went up, not Spain's. Spain's number actually fell. - apologies...

[metmom]

Pride.

Can’t admit they are wrong.

Or won’t.

They are like 9/11 truthers. Believe in their own reality.

[LilFarmer]

My only concern would be that the groomer will have been in contact with dozens of other families and pets, some of whom have the virus, and/or the groomer may have it. Seeing how my dogs carry around pollen on their fur, I am sure they could carry around cv fomites.

[caww]

I've never viewed New York as the “Heartbeat of America”.....if it beats anywhere it's in the Heartland Of America's Midwest, the farmers and those who produce our food supply and all the Truckers who bring it to us....

If New York went down there are plenty of other cities who could replace it....... but without our food supply and truckers the obvious would be a catastrophe.

[Dark Wing]

The world public health system is built on lies and coercion. Public health worker union contracts in western nations as well as some airline worker unions say hospital systems or airlines cannot make their workers do their job without adequate airborne pathogen PPE in the event there is an airborne pathogen. So the WHO and CDC will never, ever, declare a pathogen anything beyond droplet because of the moneyed interests involved. (Insert airlines, hospital administrators, China, Open Borders immigration, etc, etc, special interests here) They absolutely need to coerce HCW to throw their lives on the bonfire of epidemics to make their corrupt so-called "Public health" system work while maintaining their corruption based income streams. Their lies here regards airborne versus droplet and utter resistance to need for Western public's to wear masks at all are all about maintaining that coercive power and income. This is something I ran across that covers the airborne pathogen reality that is COVID-19. The CDC would rather us all die than admit to the scientific reality of the following: ------- The “social distance” guidelines of 6 feet only protects you from droplets exhaled by normal breathing, which mostly fall to the ground or disperse within 6 feet. It does nothing to protect you from coughs or sneezes, nor from the fact that droplets can hang in the air for a minimum of 10 minutes (per MIT study years ago). Basically: Normal breathing sends droplets outwards for a distance of up to 1.82 meters (6~ feet) A cough sends droplets out at 10 meters per second, for a distance up to 6 meters (approx 18 feet). A sneeze sends droplets out at 50 meters per second for a distance of up to 10 meters (approx 30 feet). As for airborne transmission -- in normal circumstances, the experts are correct; COVID-19 (and others) is not airborne. However, under special circumstances, COVID-19 can go mildly airborne. (Links and quotes from study below). "Special Circumstances" can be defined as "places where a COVID-19 infectee stayed for an extended period of time"; which basically are: Sleeping areas in homes/apartments Hospital Rooms Airliners with COVID-19 infected Cruise ships with COVID-19 infected Aircraft Carriers with COVID-19 infected etc. Basically, when entering those environments, you have to assume you're entering a Level 3 or 4 Biohazard area and wear a tyvek suit, full face mask respirator, and gloves at a minimum. Decontamination should be done immediately after exiting the area (jump into shower in full gear, let shower run for a few minutes). Also, for those environments, decontamination of surfaces has to be done to a much higher standard than everyday environments. For microbial environments, the following standards are used: 1 log reduction = 90% reduction 2 log reduction = 99% reduction 3 log reduction = 99.9% reduction 4 log reduction = 99.99% reduction 5 log reduction = 99.999% reduction 6 log reduction = 99.9999% reduction For common Ethanol/Alcohol (70%); wiping the surface down and it staying wet for a few seconds has a reduction of about 3 to 4 log (99.9% to 99.99%). This is good enough for general decontamination. However, if you have a confirmed COVID-19 patient, everything in there has to be done to a higher standard -- to go from about 4.0 log₁₀ to > 5.9 log₁₀ with Ethanol/Alcohol (70%), the surface has to be wet for 30~ seconds. For bleach (Sodium Hypochlorate) - if you have a 0.21% (2100 ppm concentration) solution, you achieve > 4.0 log₁₀ after 30 seconds of surface wetting. Per (https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/health-topics/environmental-occupational-health/water-quality/chlorine-dilution-calculator) To achieve 2100 ppm with household (5.25% bleach), you need to dilute at a ratio of 1:23 or, 1 part of bleach for 22 parts of water. You may reduce this to 1 part bleach for 20 parts of water if you want a slightly stronger concentration. If you want to ultra-sanitize, you'll need 5000 ppm; and to get this with common 5.25% bleach, you'll need to get a 1:9 ratio, or 1 parts bleach to 8 parts water.

[Mariner]

Even the casual observer knew it was airborne/aerosolized as far back as January.

To become infected all one must do is breath the same air as an infected person in ANY closed space.

It spreads more like measles than flu.

[caww]

.....”Ignorance is bliss, until someone they know has this”....

I doubt that would make much difference as the attitude even then appears to be “people die every day” and they blow it off.

I admit initially I wondered if the threat was as serious until watching it spread like wild fire thru China, but even then believed it might be mostly contained there. When Trump closed our order to China all I could think of were the thousands of Chinese people already here who had been traveling back and forth for decades. THAT was my wake up call it was already here and when I began watching closely.

[blueplum]

The powers each Governor is exercising are written into each state constitution under whatever the emergency powers clauses are in that constitution. Once the President rescinds the National Emergency (enabling funds and logistical support for states), governors will need to rescind their declared State Emergencies, and their powers return to ‘normal.’

As it stands, the President is strongly recommending, the CDC is advising, but the Governors are free to handle their own state. This is why there is no uniformity; some states shut down and some shut down at different times with different conditions on their citizens. Example: 14-day quarantines for those traveling from one state or the other are in place over here but not over there.

Bear in mind, individual rights have always been curtailed in the event of a catastrophic event, especially one involving contagious disease. One cannot yell fire in a field of wounded. One gets out of the way so as not become a problem themselves. When the problem is handled and the fire is smoldering ashes, then is the time to revisit state governorship. Two months into a pandemic, unless there is aggrieved overreach, which we have not seen, is not the time. Those that question such at this point would seem to have ulterior motives, or maybe a lack of understanding of each state's individual constitutional powers given their governor by the people of that state.

[Mariner]

My awakening was when China quarantined 56 million people over night.

And enforced it.

[glennaro]

Your statements are true, of course, and go to some of the points I have made.

The other part of my question is how do we restore our Republic and our liberties (i.e., Constitutional contraints that are our protection against a tyrannical government) when the virus is no longer considered such a threat as to literally shut down our economy and create significant restrictions to our freedom?

My concern is about who will make this determination, when will it be made and how will it be implemented to return us to "normal" -- or, if you prefer, "traditional" -- governance; that is, where we were less than a month ago? These considerations are, in some ways understandably, undefined at this time. However, the absence of serious consideration of these points while time continues to pass, the lockdowns continue to expand and more -- much more -- authority and control of the populace is assumed by a relative handful of politicians (many of whom have massive egos, a clear commitment to self-political preservation and, quite frankly, a desire for even more power, control and attention) must be examined and must be of significant concern to every freedom-loving American.

[amorphous]

Note the emphasis on everyone wearing masks - a recommendation based on very practical experience.

Yes, and our "experts" with budgets in the billions of dollars were telling us the exact opposite just recently. Which defied all common sense and logic - amounting to nothing more than pure lying BS. How many American lives have their lies cost?

I don't blame Trump for this, as one would normally go with what your people, the "experts", are telling you. I blame the CDC, FDA, and certainly the WHO.

Korea's expert in video explained why Korea was better prepared, because they had learned their lessons during the SARS/MERS outbreaks.

I just wish we had had the common sense to call Korea/Japan for answers rather than go with what the World Health Organization, or our own CDC, was telling us - not wear masks, not seal our borders, it wasn't a big deal, etc.

The MSM camel has its nose under the tent over this. Trump needs to stomp some noses.

[calenel]

Some Governors have overstepped. Seems to me they were doing it long before the pandemic. I don’t agree that the Constitution has been suspended, although there are obviously constraint imposed on the exercise of certain rights. Being asked to stay home is certainly going to challenge a lot of people - I am one of them - but under the circumstances it protects the health of many and the economic freedom of all. A crashed HCS and crashed economy will impose a great deal more hardship on everyone. This is temporary.

Governors, however, do have extraordinary powers in time of emergency. The ones that have abused and are abusing those powers need to be challenged. If they try to retain those powers after the emergency is over, then you can fight them in the courts or on the streets as appropriate. And if there is no overstepping but you are still offended by the actions of your state’s officials, there is always the ballot box.

And no, I don’t consider that asserting that abortion is an “essential service” is either honest or ethical. It is entirely in the service of special interests and those governors need to be held accountable. That is a different battlefield, however.

And for the record, it isn’t fear of the virus here. That’s the wrong word and carries the wrong semantical baggage. People that cannot distinguish between being prepared and trying to help others, and fear, must live in their own kind of personal nightmare.

I empathize with the sick and the dead and with the loss their families and friends must endure. But I also see what needs to be done and that the Trump administration is largely saying and doing the right things. I am confident we will come through this as well as we reasonably can. And I will find the positives in the situation. What else is there to do? Certainly not start a rebellion. But when it’s over if you want to go after the governor of your state for being tyrannical, go for it and I’ll cheer you on.

[Raebie]

I’ll be a lot of them are wearing masks. Ask.

[mom of young patriots]

But they arent allowing plastic wrap stertched haphazardly with sticks...no chain store would allow that mess you saw in the video.

---

Yes, I see your point. It can have negative results if it fools the people into thinking they are safe, when it might be letting coughs and sneezes through.

The Plexiglas I’ve seen is good and properly installed. That should be the minimum requirement.

[blueplum]

There was a rather racist article in the Lancet the other day. According to the article, it’s racist for westerners not to wear masks because it’s not polite (subservient) to Asians (Chinese) who do. (of course, Asians wear masks because of pollution, not really to prevent others from becoming sick)

Since that article, tho, the new topic is to wear or not to wear.

But what’s pretty funny is, a) there are no masks for Americans to wear anyway, since all supplies are going to hospitals, who don’t have enough and, b) we’re all in quarantine in our homes and nobody’s going out in public anyway!

So why are we even having this conversation about masks at all right now, other than it’s worryfluff material for the MSM?

[Jane Long]

Yep...at least you did research and came around!

And, unfortunately, MILLIONS of Chinese had flown here, there and everywhere, before the flight bans were put in place. :(

[glennaro]

Thank you for your thoughtful comments, calenel ... much appreciated.

You're right that the Constitution is not technically suspended and I know the governors, though a few may be tempted, have no authority to override Constitutional protections, but it kinda, sorta feels that way ... and I wanted to grab peoples' attention and solicit thoughtful responses with a "National Enquirer-style" statement. Cheers!

[Mariner]

New daily thread here:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3830232/posts?page=1

[blueplum]

The MSM is trying to drum up mask sales for the Chinese. One chicom manufacturer described mask manufacturing as ‘printing money’ - at $1 a mask wholesale and a million masks a week. Selling those masks right back to the same nations they stripped of masks three months ago.