The Shocking Difference Between Pentecostal Pastors and ‘Mainline’ Pastors

Townhall.com ^ | February 24, 2020 | Michael Brown

[Kaslin]

According to a new Lifeway Research survey, while 47 percent of “mainline” pastors now support same-sex “marriage,” only 8 percent of evangelical pastors do. More specifically, “Presbyterian or Reformed (49%), Methodist (47%), Lutheran (35%) and Christian/Church of Christ pastors (20%) are more likely to see nothing wrong with same-sex marriage than Baptist (3%) or Pentecostal pastors (1%).”

None of this is surprising in the least.

First, as noted by Scott McConnell, executive director of LifeWay Research, “The movement we see among pastors’ views of same-sex marriage has less to do with their denominational tradition than their view of the Bible.”

Accordingly, those who hold most faithfully to the authority of Scripture will be the least inclined to change their views on homosexuality. Put another way, those who believe the Bible to be God’s inspired, unchanging Word will be the least likely to compromise their convictions based on societal changes.

“An evangelical distinctive,” McConnell continued, “is the ultimate authority the Bible has over one’s beliefs despite changing cultural perspectives. It is not surprising then that evangelical pastors across different denominations continue to view same-sex marriage as wrong through this lens.”

That’s because the Bible is unambiguous in its condemnation of homosexual unions. Under all circumstances, regardless of how much love or commitment is involved, they are sinful in God’s sight and contrary to His established order.

At the same time, mercy and forgiveness are offered for all, including practicing homosexuals. The Word is equally clear on this (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11).

That’s why, when I had a mini-debate with “gay Christian” poster boy Matthew Vines, he could not offer a single Scripture verse in support of his position. (For a graphic illustration of the scriptural bankruptcy of the “gay Christian” argument, see here.)

When it comes to “mainline” pastors, which these days primarily refers to “progressive” or “liberal” pastors, they are more inclined to interpret Scripture through the lens of contemporary culture than to evaluate contemporary culture through the lens of Scripture.

As a result, they are more likely to disbelieve fundamental, biblical truths, including: the Bible as God’s infallible Word; salvation coming only through Jesus; the virgin birth and the resurrection; eternal reward and eternal punishment.

That’s why it’s no surprise that these same pastors, who have waffled on the most foundational issues, will waffle on things like gay “marriage” too. What else could we expect?

Ironically, it is the Pentecostals, who are often derided for their belief that the Spirit continues to speak today, who are the most conservative of all, with only 1 percent of their pastors affirming same-sex “marriage.”

But that, too, should come as no surprise. That’s because the reason Pentecostals believe that prophecy and tongues are for today is because they believe that the Word of God means what it says. That’s also why they reject same-sex “marriage.”

Pentecostals also emphasize the importance of the new birth and life in the Spirit. This means that the vast majority of their adherents will have a greater devotion to the Lord and His Word than those of “mainline” churches, which often downplay the concept of personal relationship with God.

All this would be in keeping with a 10-country religious survey published in 2006, titled, “Spirit and Power – A Ten Country Survey of Pentecostals.”

The survey indicated that, “In addition to their distinctive religious experiences, renewalists also stand out for the intensity of their belief in traditional Christian doctrines and practices. For instance, in eight of the 10 countries surveyed (all except the U.S. and Chile), majorities of nonrenewalist Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word; but this view is even more common among pentecostals than among non-renewalist Christians. Similarly, large majorities of all Christians, renewalists and nonrenewalists alike, believe that miracles still occur today as in ancient times. But this belief tends to be even more intense among pentecostals and, to a lesser extent, charismatics than among nonrenewalist Christians.”

It is true that, according to the recent Lifeway Research survey, the more educated the pastor, the more likely he (or she) was to accept same-sex “marriage.” Specifically, “Those with a doctorate (27%) or a master’s degree (32%) are more likely to support same-sex marriage than pastors with a bachelor’s degree (9%) or no college degree (6%).”

But, once again, it is also more likely that many of those who pursued more advanced degrees view the Bible through a more modernist lens than those who chose not to pursue such degrees. Education, in and of itself, does not guarantee orthodoxy. This is especially so when the seminaries attended are themselves liberal.

Interestingly, “Pastors of churches with fewer than 50 in attendance are more likely to see nothing wrong with two people of the same gender getting married (33%) than those at churches with 100 or more in attendance (19%).”

This would confirm what I have written about numerous times, namely, that “progressive Christianity” is doomed to fail.

That’s why, while 47 percent of “mainline” pastors now affirm same-sex relations, they represent an increasingly small minority of American pastors as a whole as their congregations are dwindling. In stark contrast, Pentecostal-Charismatic Christianity is exploding around the globe.

One group adheres more faithfully to the Word and relies on the Spirit’s power. The other does not.

The results are as expected.

[Mark17]

So you can say a person can be in a "state of grace," but you can't really say a person is "saved" in the permanent, changelesss, definitive sense until they have reached a perfect, definitive state, which is Heaven.

I agree with iscool. I used the term “state of Grace,” when I was a Catholic. I don’t use it anymore, but I can absolutely, totally, completely say I am saved, in whatever sense you may choose to call it. As true believers, we have, by the grace of God, already reached a “perfect, definitive state,” and are already seated in Heaven. I may not use exactly the same terms you do, but I think you get the message. 👍😁

[MHGinTN]

1 JOHN 3:9 tells us that it is God abiding in rhe spirit of the born again. The passage also says such a born again spirit CANNOT SIN BECAUSE GOD IS ABIDING IN THAT spirit! That biblical truth makes purgatory a great lie, for God does not abide where there is sin. The fleshly self is sin-laden, not the born again spirit. The blood of Jesus has cleansed my spirit. The fleshy me, though very different after four decades of Holy Spirit work on my soul, is not saved by the blood of Jesus or any sojourn in a purgatory.

[Mark17]

That biblical truth makes purgatory a great lie

Yes, the story of purgatory, is a huge lie. Now, I am not saying it is totally impossible to be saved, if one believes in the lies of purgatory or limbo. What I will say, is that it is almost impossible. When one becomes a born again Christian, false doctrines, like purgatory, salvation by works, and other things, tend to be shed, over time.
I know, when I became born again, I stayed in the Catholic Church for about 3 or 4 more weeks. I went to mass a few more times, but as I read the New Testament, this time, with the help of the Holy Spirit, I started to realize the mass was a blasphemous event. It took awhile for the false doctrines of the Catholic Church to fall away, but fall away they did. Praise God for that. 😁👍

[metmom]

+1

[metmom]

Scripture does not use the phrase *state of grace*.

God's grace is poured out on all of us. He sends rain on the just and the unjust.

And you are right, Mark.

We are already seated with Christ in Heaven. In Him, we are already positionally in heaven. No purgatory for us.

Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

That is why to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

[MHGinTN]

Thanks be to God

[MHGinTN]

Beautiful

[Mark17]

+1000 👍

[Elsie]

The spirits GOD will bring with Jesus will be 'zipped' into these new bodies

So; you are trying to convince me that these 'spirits' are now in heaven with OUT a body??

HMMMmmm…

My Mormon FRiends try to convince me that before we are born on earth; we are spirits in heaven; too.

[Elsie]

The shout, the voice of the archangel and the trumpet are the triggers for raising eternal habitation bodies fit for eternity and mechanisms fit for righteousness without sinning.

Raising and not creating??

[Elsie]

...and new behavior mechanisms...

Is this after the Catholic temporal punishment stuff?

[Elsie]

I will be emailing to you a couple of essays revealing more detail on this subject.

Can't you just post some scripture here that shows what you are talking about?

[Elsie]

Notice that word habit.

Oh; I noticed all right!

Did that straw just happen to float by and you reached out and grabbed it??

---

KJ21
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
ASV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
AMP
If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just [true to His own nature and promises], and will forgive our sins and cleanse us continually from all unrighteousness [our wrongdoing, everything not in conformity with His will and purpose].
AMPC
If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action].
BRG
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
CSB
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
CEB
But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from everything we’ve done wrong.
CJB
If we acknowledge our sins, then, since he is trustworthy and just, he will forgive them and purify us from all wrongdoing.
CEV
But if we confess our sins to God, he can always be trusted to forgive us and take our sins away.
DARBY
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us [our] sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
DLNT
If we are confessing our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
DRA
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity.
ERV
But if we confess our sins, God will forgive us. We can trust God to do this. He always does what is right. He will make us clean from all the wrong things we have done.
EHV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
ESV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
ESVUK
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
EXB
But if we confess our sins, he will forgive our sins, because ·we can trust God to do what is right [L he is faithful and righteous/just; Deut. 32:4]. He will ·cleanse [purify] us from all ·the wrongs we have done [unrighteousness].
GNV
If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
GW
God is faithful and reliable. If we confess our sins, he forgives them and cleanses us from everything we’ve done wrong.
GNT
But if we confess our sins to God, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.
HCSB
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
ICB
But if we confess our sins, he will forgive our sins. We can trust God. He does what is right. He will make us clean from all the wrongs we have done.
ISV
If we make it our habit to confess our sins, in his faithful righteousness he forgives us for those sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.
PHILLIPS
Here, then, is the message which we heard from him, and now proclaim to you: GOD IS LIGHT and no shadow of darkness can exist in him. Consequently, if we were to say that we enjoyed fellowship with him and still went on living in darkness, we should be both telling and living a lie. But if we really are living in the same light in which he eternally exists, then we have true fellowship with each other, and the blood which his Son shed for us keeps us clean from all sin. If we refuse to admit that we are sinners, then we live in a world of illusion and truth becomes a stranger to us. But if we freely admit that we have sinned, we find God utterly reliable and straightforward—he forgives our sins and makes us thoroughly clean from all that is evil. For if we take up the attitude “we have not sinned”, we flatly deny God’s diagnosis of our condition and cut ourselves off from what he has to say to us.
KJV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
AKJV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
LEB
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, so that he will forgive us our sins and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
TLB
But if we confess our sins to him, he can be depended on to forgive us and to cleanse us from every wrong. And it is perfectly proper for God to do this for us because Christ died to wash away our sins.*
MSG
If we claim that we’re free of sin, we’re only fooling ourselves. A claim like that is errant nonsense. On the other hand, if we admit our sins—make a clean breast of them—he won’t let us down; he’ll be true to himself. He’ll forgive our sins and purge us of all wrongdoing. If we claim that we’ve never sinned, we out-and-out contradict God—make a liar out of him. A claim like that only shows off our ignorance of God.
MEV
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
MOUNCE
If we confess · our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
NOG
God is faithful and reliable. If we confess our sins, he forgives them and cleanses us from everything we’ve done wrong.
NABRE
If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.
NASB
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
NCV
But if we confess our sins, he will forgive our sins, because we can trust God to do what is right. He will cleanse us from all the wrongs we have done.
NET
But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness.
NIRV
But God is faithful and fair. If we confess our sins, he will forgive our sins. He will forgive every wrong thing we have done. He will make us pure.
NIV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
NIVUK
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
NKJV
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
NLV
If we tell Him our sins, He is faithful and we can depend on Him to forgive us of our sins. He will make our lives clean from all sin.
NLT
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.
NMB
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
NRSV
If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
NRSVA
If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
NRSVACE
If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
NRSVCE
If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
NTE
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
OJB
If we make vidduy (confession of sin) of chattoteinu (our sins), he is ne’eman (faithful) and tzaddik to grant selicha (forgiveness) of chattoteinu (our sins) and give us tohorah (purification, cleansing) from kol avon. [DEVARIM 32:4; TEHILLIM 32:5; 51:2; MISHLE 28:13; MICHOH 7:18-20]
TPT
But if we freely admit our sins when his light uncovers them, he will be faithful to forgive us every time. God is just to forgive us our sins because of Christ, and he will continue to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
RGT
If we acknowledge our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
RSV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
RSVCE
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
TLV
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
VOICE
But if we own up to our sins, God shows that He is faithful and just by forgiving us of our sins and purifying us from the pollution of all the bad things we have done.
WEB
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
WE
Let us tell God about our wrong ways. God can be trusted. He does what is right. He will forgive us for the wrong things we have done. He will make us clean from all that was wrong.
WYC
If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just, that he forgive to us our sins, and cleanse us from all wickedness.
YLT
if we may confess our sins, stedfast He is and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from every unrighteousness;

[Elsie]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Version

 

https://www.isv.org/bible/

 

Has ROME approved the use of this new bible translation for it's members?

[Elsie]

Elsie, the following is not written for the born again:

Izzat so?

 Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

 

 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

 

---

Then just WHO are the dead in Christ?

The bride of Christ is not sleeping in the dust of the earth.

Was Lazarus part of the Bride of Christ?

How about THESE folks??

Matthew 27:52 English Standard Version
The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,

[Elsie]

2 things that verse DOESN'T say...

I wish more folks would notice things like this!

[Elsie]

It was a temporary state which no longer exists.

Oh?

How do we know this?

[Elsie]

Exactly: "waiting place", a very definition of Limbo.

But does it have free, high speed WIFI?

[Elsie]

The place you describe (above) is exactly this place: not hell, not purgatory, but not "yet" heaven, because those destined for heaven had to wait until the opening of "the gate" was accomplished.

Our Mormon FRiends have some definitions like this:

HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.

Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church.

Telestial - where unbelievers go

 

 

 

HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.

 

SALVATION: A word that Mormons qualify in one of three ways: unconditional or general salvation is simply resurrection from the dead, granted to all through Christ's atonement; conditional or individual salvation involves entering the celestial kingdom through works of Mormonism; full salvation means exaltation to become a God as a result of temple ceremonies and other works. The word 'salvation' can have a two-fold meaning: a) forgiveness of sins and b) universal resurrection:

• "There will be a General Salvation for all in the sense in which that term is generally used, but salvation, meaning resurrection, is not exaltation" (Stephen L. Richards, Contributions of Joseph Smith, LDS tract, p.5).
• "All men are saved by grace alone without any act on their part, meaning they are resurrected" (Bruce McConkie, What Mormons Think of Christ", LDS tract, p.28).

The Mormons have several different levels of "salvation".

• General salvation- in Mormon theology, the death of Christ ransoms men from the effects of the fall (Mormon Doctrine, p.62), except for a few sons of perdition who fell with Lucifer. Thus, all mankind will eventually receive general salvation because all men will be resurrected.
• Individual salvation - to obtain individual salvation, the standards set forth by the Mormon church must be met. This comes by grace plus baptism plus works.
• Exaltation - different degrees of exaltation
• Eternal life on the other hand is reserved for the elite few who qualify and are found worthy of this "honor" or "reward" and who will move on to be "exalted." This salvation is in fact the personal "exaltation" or the fast track of the "eternal progression" process in attaining your own self-made status of godhood in order to people your own planet.

[Elsie]

We must be reconstituted and outfitted with a heavenly body

Why?

(Sorry; Marvin; for the hole again.)

---

An atom from here, a molecule from there; a part of a worm or bug from someplace else.

Sounds icky to me! ;^)