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To: woodpusher; Bull Snipe; DiogenesLamp; OIFVeteran
woodpusher: "Obviously, you have lost your mind.
The Congress was created pursuant to the Constitution of 1789.
The Constitution provided that, "The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the same.
The States created the Constitution before there was ever a Congress. "

Well, actually there were several American Congresses before 1789:

  1. The Albany Congress met in 1754, attended by seven of 13 British colonies to coordinate relations with Indians and defense in the French & Indian War.
    Congress debated Benjamin Franklin's Albany Plan of Union.

  2. The Continental Congress of 1765, representatives from nine of 13 colonies met in NYC to oppose the British Stamp Act and taxation without representation -- it adopted the Declaration of Rights and Grievances.

  3. The First Continental Congress of 1774, delegates from 12 of 13 colonies met in Philadelphia in opposition to the British Intolerable Acts.
    Notable delegates included George Washington, Patrick Henry and John Adams.

  4. The Second Continental Congress of 1775-1781 met in Philadelphia, appointed George Washington commander in chief of the Continental Army, declared American independence and wrote the Articles of Confederation.

  5. The Confederation Congress of 1781-1788 met in Philadelphia, Princeton, Anapolis, Trenton and NYC, abolished itself after ratification of the new US Constitution.

  6. First United States Congress, meeting in 1789 under the new Constitution in NYC, later moved to Philadelphia and eventually the new capital of Washington, DC.

The Second Continental Congress in 1776 first declared the 13 colonies to be states of the United States of America.
So, colonies created Congress, Congress created the states of the United States.

Now I'm out of time for today, will stop here.

328 posted on 04/05/2020 5:02:41 PM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: BroJoeK; Bull Snipe; DiogenesLamp; OIFVeteran
[BroJoeK #325]: As lincoln, Chase & others argued, it was colonies which created Congress, but Congress created the states.

And as the States could have been created only once, in referring to the Congress, you could have referred, at most, to only one of them.

[BroJoeK #328] Well, actually there were several American Congresses before 1789:

The delegates of the colonies created the States by proclamation. Of course they did. And you define success as staggering from one failure to the next without losing your enthusiasm.

The Contintental Congress was not a national government and lacked authority to pass or enforce a law, or to pass or enforce a tax, much less create states. The several States were free and independent States, independent from Britain and each other.

If proclaiming independence created the States, you still forget history. Several states declared independence before the Second Continental Congress got around to saying jack.

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In North Carolina The Mecklenburgh Resolutions were adopted on May 20, 1775.

THE MECKLENBURGH RESOLUTIONS—1775*

I. Resolved: That whosoever directly or indirectly abets, or in any way, form, or manner countenances the unchartered and dangerous invasion of our rights, as claimed by Great Britain, is an enemy to this country—to America—and to the inherent and inalienable rights of man.

II. Resolved: That we do hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of right ought to be a sovereign and self-governing association, under the control of no power, other than that of our God and the General Government of the Congress: To the maintainance of which Independence we solemnly pledge to each other our mutual co-operation, our Lives, our Fortunes, and our most Sacred Honor.

III. Resolved: That as we acknowledge the existence and control of no law or legal officer, civil or military, within this county, we do hereby ordain and adopt as a rule of life, all, each, and every one of our former laws, wherein, nevertheless, the Crown of Great Britain never can be considered as holding rights, privileges, or authorities therein.

IV. Resolved: That all, each, and every Military Officer in this country is hereby reinstated in his former command and authority, he acting conformably to their regu­lations, and that every Member present of this Delegation, shall henceforth be a Civil Officer, viz: a Justice of the Peace, in the character of a Committee Man, to issue process, hear and determine all matters of controversy, according to said adopted laws, and to preserve Peace, Union, and Harmony in said county, to use every exer­tion to spread the Love of Country and Fire of Freedom throughout America, until a more general and organized government be established in this Province.

ABRAHAM ALEXANDER, Chairman.

John McKnitt Alexander, Secretary.

* This declaration of independence (with a supplementary set of reslutions establishing a form of government) was adopted by a convention of delegates from different sections of Mecklenburgh County, which assembled at Charlotte May 20, 1775.

Benjamin P. Poore, The Federal and State Constitutions, Colonial Charters, and other Organic Laws of the United States, Part II, 2nd ed., Compiled Under an Order of the United States Senate, pp. 1408-09.

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New Jersey ordered the publication of its constitution on July 3, 1776.

This constitution was framed by a convention which assembled in accordance with the recommendation of the continental Congress that the people of the colonies should form independent State governments, and which was in session, with closed doors, successively, at Burlington, Trenton, and New Brunswick, from May 26, 1776, until July 2, 1776, with intermissions. It was not submitted to the people, but its publication was ordered by the convention, July 3, 1776.

Id., p. 1310, footnote §.

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Connecticut, at the time of approving the Declaration of Independence, issued "An Act containing an Abstract and Declaration of the Rights and Privileges of the People of this State, and securing the same." It stated in part:

PARAGRAPH 1. Be it enacted and declar3ed by the Governor, and Council, and House of Representatives, in General Court assembled, That the ancient Form of Civil Government, contained in the Charter from Charles the Second, King of England, and adopted by the People of this State, shall be and remain the Civil Constitution of this State, under the sole authority of the People thereof, independent of any King or Prince whatever. And this Republic is, and shall forever be, and remain, a free, sovereign and independent State, by the name of the STATE of CONNECTICUT.

Id., Part I, pp. 257-58

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The New Hampshire Constitution was adopted January 5, 1776.

The South Carolina Constitution was adopted March 26, 1776.

The Virginia Bill of Rights was adopted on June 12, 1776.

The Virginia Constitution was adopted June 29, 1776.

- - - - - - - - - -

The Articles of Confederation, March 1, 1781, only established a self-described "firm league of friendship" and "binding themselves to assist each other." And, it declared that "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled."

I.

The Stile of this Confederacy shall be "The United States of America".

II.

Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.

III.

The said States hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever.

It was a league of friendship between independent and sovereign States who each retained their sovereignty, freedom, and independence. It was not a consolidated union which destroyed State sovereignty and independence.

331 posted on 04/07/2020 2:47:49 PM PDT by woodpusher
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