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To: OIFVeteran
A state cannot come into the Union as it pleases, and go out when it pleases. Once in, it must stay until the Union is destroyed.

Contradicts the Founders claims in the Declaration of Independence. The revolution established the principle that people can leave a Union, and can form another one.

624 posted on 01/13/2020 8:44:53 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no oither sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
Yes people can leave a country through the natural right of revolution or rebellion. That is what the founders did during the revolutionary war, and what the secessionist tried to do in the civil war.

The founders never expected the British empire to just let them go. That’s why Benjamin Franklin said “We Must All Hang Together, or Most Assuredly, We Will All Hang Separately” when he signed the Declaration of Independence. The founders never claimed they seceded from the British empire they knew they were rebelling.

Now governments and country’s also have the natural right of self-defense. So when a group of people invokes their natural right of rebellion they are appealing to force, arms, military might. That’s why in that quote of Lincoln you lost causers always like to throw around he says “and having the power”.

The founders even stated to the world that governments shouldn’t be changed for any old reason. As the founders state in the DoI “...that governments long established should not be thrown off for light and transient causes.” They then stated when the natural right of rebellion should be invoked, “But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

We can also look at the actions of the founders to show how much they endured until they declared their independence. In 1765 England introduced the stamp tax. Our founders then labored for 11 years attempting to get England to acknowledge their rights as Englishmen. Do you really believe any revolutionary founding father would have said to the southern secessionist “oh, a party you didn’t like won the Presidency in an election in a constitutional Republic that has a series of checks and balances and you want to rebel? They would have laughed at the secessionists!

631 posted on 01/13/2020 9:45:09 AM PST by OIFVeteran
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