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To: DiogenesLamp; Kalamata; OIFVeteran; rockrr
DiogenesLamp: "I have only learned of this thing we now call "Crony Capitalism" in the last decade or so.
Prior to that, I had no inkling that there was in fact collusion between powerful government officials and powerful wealthy men of business."

Sorry, but both of you fellows have seemingly been driven to insanity by mere words, in this case the term "crony capitalism".
In fact, that term refers to nothing quantifiable:

But even this definition admits: And what exactly is "collusion"?
Well, there are definitions in law and then there are partisan political witch-hunts intended to destroy opponents by throwing words at them, hoping something, anything, might stick.

Bottom line is that "crony capitalism" is just a form of corruption and standards for what is, or is not, "corrupt" can change over time.
So practices considered acceptable 200 years ago might be exposed and outlawed 100 years ago to be replaced with new technology & corrupt practices today.
But there is no quantitative measurement we can use to say if we today are any less or more corrupt than people of either 100 or 200 years ago.

DiogenesLamp: "The subsequent corruption of the Grant Administration and the widespread corruption during the "Gilded Age", demonstrates that Lincoln was greatly responsible for expanding this back door influence selling scheme between government and business. "

First of all, there's no quantifiable evidence that corruption overall under Grant was any more or less than any previous administration.
What we do have are anecdotal reports, some with all the reliability of today's fake news about President Trump's alleged collusion.

Second, blaming Lincoln for events long after he was murdered seems to me beyond even insane, it's just outright malicious lying.

Finally, the "Gilded Age" was the period of fastest economic growth in American history:

During the "Gilded Age" the US economy grew 150%, population doubled and average real wages rose over 50%.
Now suppose hypothetically we could construct some sort of quantitative measure of "corruption" and based on this metric we learn that "corruption" effects, say, 3% of the entire economy, meaning, if the economy doubles, as it did in the Gilded Age, so does "corruption".

Now, suppose also that over the years our standards for what is, or is not, "corrupt" change, and so what we are actually measuring is not increasing corruption but rather ever higher standards applied to relatively constant behavior.
Of course, there is no such metric and even if there were, we couldn't be certain exactly what it measured.

My point is: there's no rational reason to let mere words like "crony capitalism" drive you to paroxysms of insanity and frothing at the mouth over your fantasies of "tyranny" and "oppression" by Lincoln decades after he was dead!

564 posted on 01/11/2020 9:54:50 AM PST by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: BroJoeK; jeffersondem; DiogenesLamp; rockrr; DoodleDawg; OIFVeteran

>>DiogenesLamp wrote : “I have only learned of this thing we now call “Crony Capitalism” in the last decade or so.
Prior to that, I had no inkling that there was in fact collusion between powerful government officials and powerful wealthy men of business.”
>>Joey wrote: “Sorry, but both of you fellows have seemingly been driven to insanity by mere words, in this case the term “crony capitalism”.

Joey has either been living a very sheltered life, or he himself is a crony. I lean toward the latter.

Mr. Kalamata


581 posted on 01/11/2020 3:07:56 PM PST by Kalamata (BIBLE RESEARCH TOOLS: http://bibleresearchtools.com/)
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To: BroJoeK
During the "Gilded Age" the US economy grew 150%, population doubled and average real wages rose over 50%.

Population doubled? Should that not have doubled the economy? Does not 150% represent a reduction from what should have been a 200% gain in economic activity due to a doubling of the population?

Worse still, economic activity is synergistic, and doubling of the population should have resulted in economic improvement even greater than 200%.

So where did that missing money go? How much went into the pockets of the Train Barons? The Steel Barons? The Oil Barons? The Finance Barons?

And Washington DC bureaucrat pockets?

622 posted on 01/13/2020 8:32:43 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no oither sovereignty.")
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