OIFVeteran from post #361:
"...Over that time I met exactly two people that believed Lincoln was a tyrant and the south was justified in seceding."Kalamata post #368: "I see you are still playing the moral-superiority card. I thought you were done with that."
BJK post #444: "OIFVeteran merely pointed out that he met a small number of racists in the military, and somehow in Kalamata's warped mind that becomes "playing the moral-superiority card"?"
Kalamata post #485: "Joey is contextually-challenged."
Naw, Olive-boy has simply imagined a context which was, in fact, not there.
Kalamata: "Perhaps you fit in with the racists better than I did, Joey?"
Context, context: the question on the table here is, why does Kalamata claim he met so many more racists while serving in the military than either OIFVeteran or yours truly remember.
Here he suggests that's because he didn't "fit in" so well with racists.
I'd certainly agree, it's most likely Olive-boy didn't "fit in" so well with the military, period.
I can find no sense of being a good soldier in his posts here.
I also suspect the reason he met so many racists was because they were not afraid to express such opinions to him.
In my time I served beside, under and over soldiers of every color & background.
When I walked into a room they stood, saluted and were on their best behavior.
Kalamata: "Lincoln was a crony-socialist, Joey, as was Buchanan."
And yet again, Olive-boy, your insane obsession with "crony" anything is noted and dismissed as nothing more than the rantings of feeble mind unaccustomed to dealing with reality.
Kalamata: "I didn’t say “Pennsylvanians” were racist, Joey.
I singled some out as racist."
Pennsylvania is sometimes mocked as "Pennsyl-tucky", it being said we are really three states -- Philadelphia in the East, Pittsburg in the West and Alabama in-between.
Pennsylvania was among the first states to begin abolition and as of 1850 no other free-state had more freed-blacks.
I live "back in the woods" in the "Alabama" part, not so far from President Buchanan's home town.
In some villages nearby you can see Confederate flags flying from porches, sometimes beside US flags.
I doubt seriously if those Confederate flag-flyers consider themselves racists, not at all, but Pennsylvanians have an independent streak which expressed itself not just in 1776, but also in the 1794 Whiskey Rebellion and 1798 Fries Rebellion.
In 1863 there were Pennsylvanians serving on both sides at Gettysburg, though many more for the Union.
So Pennsylvanians admire people with the courage to stand up for their own independence.
And Pennsylvanians, certainly my "Alabama" neighbors, love, love Donald Trump.
Kalamata: "Where are your sources, Joey?"
Thanks for asking.
The total number of slaveholders in 1860, circa 400,000 comes from the 1860 census, a summary found here.
Cotton exports after 1860 can be found here, and also here.
Kalamata: "Joey finally said something I am in complete agreement with.
Our property taxes are now roughly 25% of what they were in PA, on approximately the same size home and lot."
And, typical of our Olive-boy, what he agrees with he takes credit for himself having said!
Post #485, final response, he quotes my words as his own.
{sigh}
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>>OIFVeteran from post #361: "...Over that time I met exactly two people that believed Lincoln was a tyrant and the south was justified in seceding."
>>Kalamata post #368: "I see you are still playing the moral-superiority card. I thought you were done with that."
>>BJK post #444: "OIFVeteran merely pointed out that he met a small number of racists in the military, and somehow in Kalamata's warped mind that becomes "playing the moral-superiority card"?"
>>Kalamata post #485: "Joey is contextually-challenged."
>>Joey wrote: Naw, Olive-boy has simply imagined a context which was, in fact, not there.
As usual, tricky Joey took the original statement out of context. This was the original post by OIF:
OIFVeteran wrote: “Wanted to add a follow up comment on what you mention here about Kalamata claim about knowing Marines that think Lincoln was a tyrant. I served almost 21 years in the US Military. Started in the Marines and retired from the Army. Served both active duty and reserves, enlisted and officer. Over that time I met exactly two people that believed Lincoln was a tyrant and the south was justified in seceding. They were my roommates for awhile when I was lower enlisted in the Marines. One from Virginia and one from Tennessee, both white. They were also the two most racist people I’ve have ever had the misfortune to meet in real life. (Sadly I’ve met even more racist people on line.)”
That certainly appears to be a case of playing the moral superiority card. I personally consider military and ex-military to have a certain amount of moral superiority to those who didn't serve, and were able to serve. Perhaps Joey doesn't.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "Perhaps you fit in with the racists better than I did, Joey?"
>>Joey wrote: "Context, context: the question on the table here is, why does Kalamata claim he met so many more racists while serving in the military than either OIFVeteran or yours truly remember. Here he suggests that's because he didn't "fit in" so well with racists."
I was merely offering a suggestion that perhaps you didn't notice racists, as much as I did, because you are more like them -- like fish in a fish bowl.
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>>Joey wrote: "I'd certainly agree, it's most likely Olive-boy didn't "fit in" so well with the military, period."
I enjoyed my time in the military, Joey, and I am honored to have had the privilege of serving my country.
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>>Joey wrote: "I can find no sense of being a good soldier in his posts here."
Joey's will slander you if you don't kiss rings of his heroes: the racist Charlie Darwin and the racist Abraham Lincoln.
Almost forgot: Joey's modern-day hero is author Michael Shermer, an anti-conservative atheist-bigot. The difference between an atheist and an "atheist-bigot," is the latter proselytizes.
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>>Joey wrote: "I also suspect the reason he met so many racists was because they were not afraid to express such opinions to him."
Perhaps. I was the quiet one.
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>>Joey wrote: "In my time I served beside, under and over soldiers of every color & background. When I walked into a room they stood, saluted and were on their best behavior."
Once a braggart, always a braggart.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "Lincoln was a crony-socialist, Joey, as was Buchanan."
>>Joey wrote: "And yet again, Olive-boy, your insane obsession with "crony" anything is noted and dismissed as nothing more than the rantings of feeble mind unaccustomed to dealing with reality."
How would you prefer to re-characterize it, Joey? Predatory politics? Influence peddling? Pay-for-play? Just curious . . .
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>>Kalamata wrote: "I didn’t say “Pennsylvanians” were racist, Joey. I singled some out as racist."
>>Joey wrote: "Pennsylvania is sometimes mocked as "Pennsyl-tucky", it being said we are really three states -- Philadelphia in the East, Pittsburg in the West and Alabama in-between. Pennsylvania was among the first states to begin abolition and as of 1850 no other free-state had more freed-blacks. I live "back in the woods" in the "Alabama" part, not so far from President Buchanan's home town. In some villages nearby you can see Confederate flags flying from porches, sometimes beside US flags. I doubt seriously if those Confederate flag-flyers consider themselves racists, not at all, but Pennsylvanians have an independent streak which expressed itself not just in 1776, but also in the 1794 Whiskey Rebellion and 1798 Fries Rebellion. In 1863 there were Pennsylvanians serving on both sides at Gettysburg, though many more for the Union. So Pennsylvanians admire people with the courage to stand up for their own independence. And Pennsylvanians, certainly my "Alabama" neighbors, love, love Donald Trump.
Mattress stuffing.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "Where are your sources, Joey?"
>>Joey wrote: "Thanks for asking. The total number of slaveholders in 1860, circa 400,000 comes from the 1860 census, a summary found here. Cotton exports after 1860 can be found here, and also here."
Joey has a knack of painting the rosiest picture of death and destruction. The truth is, after Sherman and Sheridan burned, pillaged, and thoroughly trashed the South, the "republican" "reconstructionists" and Carpetbaggers swarmed in, continuing the plunder. Dunning put it mildly:
"The most conspicuous feature of maladministration was that of the finances. To the ambitious northern whites, inexperienced southern whites, and unintelligent blacks who controlled the first reconstructed governments, the grand end of their induction into power was to put their states promptly abreast of those which led in the prosperity and progress at the North. Things must be done, they believed, on a larger, freer, nobler scale than under the debased regime of slavery. Accordingly, both by the new constitutions and by legislation, the expenses of the governments, were largely increased: offices were multiplied in all departments; salaries were made more worthy of the now regenerated and progressive commonwealths; costly enterprises were undertaken for the promotion of the general welfare, especially where that welfare was primarily connected with the uplifting of the freedmen. The result of all this was promptly seen in an expansion of state debts and an increase of taxation that to the property-owning class were appalling and ruinous. And the fact which was of the first importance in the situation was that this class, which paid the taxes, was sharply divided politically from that which levied them, and was by the whole radical theory of the reconstruction to be indefinitely excluded from a determining voice in the government."
[William Archibald Dunning, "Reconstruction, political and economic, 1865-1877." 1907, pp.205-206]
The looting of the South is what the Lincolnites call "healing the wounds," when, in reality, it was seeding the hatred and delaying the recovery. The Marxist revisionists, such as Eric "Phony" Foner, hate Dunning for helping to expose the treachery of "reconstruction." Therefore, I highly recommend Dunning's books, as I do all books the Marxists hate. This is the book I quoted above:
Free download: Dunning - Reconstruction, political and economic, 1865-1877
BTW, Joey, it doesn't appear your third "source" tells us anything about production and exports in 1861, just before Lincoln's invasion. It also doesn't seem to tell us who benefitted from the production in 1870 and later. Help us out.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "Joey finally said something I am in complete agreement with. Our property taxes are now roughly 25% of what they were in PA, on approximately the same size home and lot."
>>Joey wrote: "And, typical of our Olive-boy, what he agrees with he takes credit for himself having said! Post #485, final response, he quotes my words as his own. {sigh}"
LOL! Joey always runs out of material before finishing his act, and is forced to improvise. This was Joey in #444:
"Sure, even today Southerners on average earn less than Northerners, but it also costs less to live in the South and anyone accustomed to high taxes for Northern roads is always amazed to see Southern roads maintained at much lower costs. And if your definition of "the good life" includes enjoying the relaxed outdoors with your family & friends, then it would be easy to construct a chart showing that the further North you travel, the less of that you find."
I am still in complete agreement with you on that point, Child, no matter how much you protest or obfuscate.
Mr. Kalamata