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To: OIFVeteran
The main cause of the war was rebels firing on a United States fort.

This is incorrect. The Confederates (they weren't rebels. Lincoln was the rebel.) had no intentions of firing on Ft. Sumter until Lincoln made it into a necessity.

When the Powhatan, the Pocahontas, The Pawnee, The Harriet Lane, the Yankee, the Uncle Ben, the Thomas Freeborn and the Baltic all remained up in their harbors in the north, there was no need to attack the fort.

When Lincoln ordered them all to proceed to Charleston and there *ATTACK* everyone surrounding the fort if they did not cooperate, this caused the need to fire on the fort. Even then, General Beauregard had sent a message to Major Anderson telling him that if Anderson would give assurance that the fort would not attack them when those ships arrived, he would refrain from firing on the fort. Anderson refused.

So you see, it was the sending of warships that caused the war. Without that single act by Abraham Lincoln, there would have been no war. Therefore it is on Lincoln's head, and his alone, that the nation descended into a bloody civil war.

The main reason there was a rebellion was because of slavery.

Slavery for "four score and seven years", and Lincoln and the Republican congress voting to pass the Corwin amendment (extending slavery indefinitely) and you think the war was fought over the normal status quo for that era?

The main reason for secession is because a majority of people in disaffected states had decided that the Special Interest Crony Capitalists corruptocrats running Washington DC for the benefit of the powerful men of New York, no longer served their interests, and so they voted to "dissolve the political bonds" much as the founders did "four score and seven years" previously.

486 posted on 01/09/2020 11:57:19 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no oither sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp; OIFVeteran
OIFVeteran to DiogenesLamp: "The main cause of the war was rebels firing on a United States fort."

DiogenesLamp: "This is incorrect.
The Confederates (they weren't rebels.
Lincoln was the rebel.) had no intentions of firing on Ft. Sumter until Lincoln made it into a necessity."

So let's call DiogenesLamp's response here what it is: lunacy.
It's just Democrats doing what Democrats by nature do -- redefine words and rewrite history to suit their own nefarious purposes.

The simple truth is that in early March 1861 Jefferson Davis ordered Confederate Gen. Beauregard to prepare to take Fort Sumter by force.
Confederates then demanded Sumter's surrender under threat of force, and when Union Maj. Anderson refused Davis ordered Beauregard to "reduce" the fort.

Now DiogenesLamp likes to pretend Anderson might have surrendered "peacefully", without a fight, but in fact Anderson was under orders not to.
So Davis was never going to seize Fort Sumter without starting a war.

DiogenesLamp: "When Lincoln ordered them all to proceed to Charleston and there *ATTACK* everyone surrounding the fort if they did not cooperate, this caused the need to fire on the fort. "

Again, DiogenesLamp well knows the truth of this but continues to lie about it anyway.
In fact, Lincoln's orders were, in effect, "no first use of force" and "resupply mission only".
There were no orders to "*ATTACK*" anyone.

DiogenesLamp: "Even then, General Beauregard had sent a message to Major Anderson telling him that if Anderson would give assurance that the fort would not attack them when those ships arrived, he would refrain from firing on the fort.
Anderson refused. "

And DiogenesLamp's lies just keep on coming.
In fact, Beauregard demanded Anderson's immediate surrender, period.
When Anderson refused, Confederates opened fire on the fort.

DiogenesLamp: "So you see, it was the sending of warships that caused the war.
Without that single act by Abraham Lincoln, there would have been no war.
Therefore it is on Lincoln's head, and his alone, that the nation descended into a bloody civil war. "

And DiogenesLamp's lies just never stop.
The real truth is Confederates had been fighting a low-level war against the United States since December 1860, seizing Federal properties, threatening US officials and firing on Union ships.
And Confederates were warned publicly in February by President Buchanan what he'd already told them privately in December -- they would not take Fort Sumter without a fight.
So Davis knew for months he could start Civil War at Fort Sumter, and he did.
Davis' own cynical words show it was totally premeditated:

DiogenesLamp: "Slavery for "four score and seven years", and Lincoln and the Republican congress voting to pass the Corwin amendment (extending slavery indefinitely) and you think the war was fought over the normal status quo for that era? "

DiogenesLamp imagines that his own unique historical fantasies are more important historically than the actual reasons expressed by secessionists themselves in 1860 & 1961.

The real truth is that Deep South Fire Eaters announced, in effect, "we're seceding because Black Republicans don't like slavery".
So Democrats in Congress said, "Oh, no, we'll make slavery easier for you, see?"
But Lincoln Republicans said, "no way" to every Democrat proposal, except one, by Corwin a Republican, which seemed harmless enough, changed nothing really.

But most secessionists had no interest in Corwin because by then (March 1861), they already had super-guaranteed slavery protected under their new Confederate constitution.

DiogenesLamp: "The main reason for secession is because a majority of people in disaffected states had decided that the Special Interest Crony Capitalists corruptocrats running Washington DC for the benefit of the powerful men of New York... "

And still more lunatic fantasies.
In fact, not one secessionist at the time said anything remotely similar to DiogenesLamp's wild imaginings.

DiogenesLamp: "...no longer served their interests, and so they voted to "dissolve the political bonds" much as the founders did "four score and seven years" previously."

And here the Lost Cause's Big Lie is hidden behind his word "much".
In fact, there was no remote similarity, none, between our Founders in 1776 and secessionists of 1860.
For example, nothing in 1860 remotely resembled our 1776 Founders' legitimate grievances, such as:


550 posted on 01/11/2020 5:37:43 AM PST by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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