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To: BroJoeK
WIJG?: " Flip side of the coin: if I thought "nullification" circa 1832 was justifiable, do I offer knee-jerk support to California as a "sanctuary State" for illegals. "
BJK: It sounds like you're trying to be thought provoking, but the flippant answer is also the correct one: it depends if at heart you are really a Democrat or Republican.

Hopefully you’re aware that Ronald Reagan was at one time a Democrat. Did Mr. Reagan change in some radical way, before joining the Republican Party?

He may have matured a bit, and certainly became more knowledgable, and much more experienced. But his values apparently remained largely consistent; as he put it (quoting from memory), ”I didn’t leave the Democrat Party – the Democrat Party left me!”

Simply put, today’s political parties are NOT the same parties that existed 50, 100, or 150 years ago. The names may not have changed, but the foundational beliefs certainly have. (Just to emphasize that point, here’s a bit of historical trivia: Karl Marx supported the Union! ;>)

If at heart you're really a Democrat, then you don't care a whit about intellectual honesty or consistency, all you care is how you feeeeeeel at the moment.
So you'll eagerly condemn in Republicans what you happily accept in yourself, etc.

Actually, I may well have been voting conservative longer than you’ve been alive.

Republicans by contrast are burdened with the need to be both honest and consistent with our morals and ideology.

Come, now – if that were true, there would be no debates on FreeRepublic, and no competing Republican candidates in the party’s primaries.

On your question of "nullification" Democrats were always the party of nullification, and remain so today.

Perhaps you should reread that post. When I lived in Colorado, it was the Republican sheriffs in the State that refused to enforce (i.e., ‘nullified’) the new Democrat ‘gun control’ laws. The same thing is happening in Virginia, even as we speak. A more accurate description (obviously still subject to debate) would be that some “constitutionalists” or “strict constructionists” support nullification, as do some scoff-law Leftists. As I believe rockrr noted, it’s not a ‘cookie cutter’ issue.

And were the roles reversed (as in civil rights laws) Democrats would take nullifiers to court and throw them in jail, but somehow that hasn't happened with Democrats' "sanctuary cities".
Do you even wonder why?

Perhaps you should ask someone who’s a Democrat. Back when Californians were suggesting that their State secede to get away from the ‘Bad Orange Man’, I believe I posted here on FR my opinion that, if that ever happened, Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat Party leadership would be the first to demand that the US military invade the State, without delay, and shoot the ring-leaders. (As noted, the parties have changed! ;>)

291 posted on 01/02/2020 12:57:14 PM PST by Who is John Galt? ("He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike.")
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To: All
Another FR internal 'current events' link:

The 2020 Virginia Showdown

FYI, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

296 posted on 01/02/2020 4:07:38 PM PST by Who is John Galt? ("He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike.")
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To: Who is John Galt?; rockrr
WIJG: "Hopefully you’re aware that Ronald Reagan was at one time a Democrat.
Did Mr. Reagan change in some radical way, before joining the Republican Party?
He may have matured a bit, and certainly became more knowledgable, and much more experienced.
But his values apparently remained largely consistent; as he put it (quoting from memory), ”I didn’t leave the Democrat Party – the Democrat Party left me!”"

Sure, and in some sense it's true -- FDR's Democrats were solidly supported by solidly racist Southerners who were also generally conservative on such matters as taxes, spending & regulations.
Curiously however, those allegedly conservative Southern Democrats were not conservative enough to stop, or even slow down, FDR's mad rush towards socialism.
Nor did FDR's tolerance for Communists in Hollywood, for example, phase them at the time.

But by the 1960s, when national Democrats were rejecting their racist Southern brethren, they also expelled their only serious economic & constitutional conservatives and thus, in Ronald Reagan's mind, Democrats left him.

But the whole truth is that as a trade-union leader, Reagan had fought against (not for) Hollywood Communists and in embracing Barry Goldwater in 1964, Reagan went to a level of conservatism that no FDR New Deal Democrat had ever been.

WIJG: "Simply put, today’s political parties are NOT the same parties that existed 50, 100, or 150 years ago.
The names may not have changed, but the foundational beliefs certainly have. (Just to emphasize that point, here’s a bit of historical trivia: Karl Marx supported the Union! ;>)"

No, from Day One Democrats have always been the same party they are today, only constituencies have changed.
Democrats began as the anti-Federalist party voting against the Constitution in 1788.
The anti-Federalist party became the anti-G.Washington-Administration party, the party of nullification, interposition, fugitive slave laws, secession, Civil War against the USA, Black Laws, segregation, KKK terrorists, and at all times the party of government big enough to enforce special privileges for Democrat voters at the expense of hard-working Americans.

WIJG: "Actually, I may well have been voting conservative longer than you’ve been alive. "

Wow, that's interesting, so you supported Taft's choice, Ohio Republican Governor Bricker for President in 1944?
He was the only serious conservative in that race, but had to take VP under Dewey for President.
Let's see... that would make you... at least 96 years old, my you sure don't look it! ;-)

WIJG: "Come, now – if that were true, there would be no debates on FreeRepublic, and no competing Republican candidates in the party’s primaries. "

Seriously, my "theory of the crime" here is that there are many, many people who think of themselves as conservative Republicans who were actually raised as liberal/progressive Democrats and still think like Democrats, meaning first and foremost, it's all about telling the Big Lies.
To be a Democrat you have to lie, lie with conviction, lie with authority, lie with passion and never ever back down.

Republicans by contrast are supposed to be truth-tellers, true to the Constitution, true to traditional values, consistent with our religious beliefs, etc.
It means, first & foremost, we don't accept Democrat lies, or the assumptions they're based on, but also that where truth is not entirely clear, we don't replace it with our own lies.
Truth is what it is, even if it's not on our side.

WIJG: " A more accurate description (obviously still subject to debate) would be that some “constitutionalists” or “strict constructionists” support nullification, as do some scoff-law Leftists.
As I believe rockrr noted, it’s not a ‘cookie cutter’ issue."

With all due respect to rockrr, alleged "nullification" of new gun-control laws in one or two states is a minor distraction from the Democrats' centuries long nullification of laws they disliked (think 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments and today's "sanctuary cities"), contrasted with their later strict enforcement of laws they do like (think Civil Rights Acts).

Nothing Republicans have ever contemplated remotely compares to Democrats' massive long-term efforts to nullify, secede and/or wage war against the US Constitution.

WIJG: " I believe I posted here on FR my opinion that, if that ever happened, Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat Party leadership would be the first to demand that the US military invade the State, without delay, and shoot the ring-leaders. (As noted, the parties have changed! ;>)"

Nancy Pelosi, typical Democrat, will never knowingly do anything to diminish her own political powers.
Impeachment, for one thing, shows her secessionist constituents that disunion is not necessary.

311 posted on 01/03/2020 5:22:18 AM PST by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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