Replies

>>BroJoeK wrote: "Given the year (1786), Jefferson is here advocating for stronger national government than then existed under the Articles of Confederation. His words could apply to such things as taxes and national defense. Years later Jefferson worried about a Federal government too strong and needing Nullification by states. But nearing the end of his life Jefferson had another thought:"
>>BroJoeK quoting: "I regret that I am to die in the belief that the useless sacrifice of themselves by the generation of 1776, to acquire self-government and happiniess to their country, is to be thrown away by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons, and that my only consolation is to be, that I live not to weep over it. If they would but dispassionately weigh the blessings they will throw away, against an abstract principle more likely to be effected by union than by secession, they would pause before they would perpetuate this act of suicide on themselves, and of treason against the hopes of the world. To yourself, as the faithful advocate of the union, I tender the offering of my high esteem and respect." -- Thomas Jefferson ltr to John Holmes 22 April 1820."

Joey's statements are always deceptive. A few years later, Jefferson wrote this:

"On every question of [of the constitution,] carry ourselves back to the time when the constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
[Letter to William Johnson, from Monticello, June 12, 1823, in Appleby & Ball, "Thomas Jefferson: Political Writings." Cambridge University Press, 1999, p.455]

According to Jefferson, what matters is HOW the Constitution was "sold" to the people via the debates in the Federal and State Conventions. That is the ONLY original-intent there is. Everything said before and after is whimsical and/or arbitrary.

Mr. Kalamata

In his post #1,630 Kalamata repeats a beautiful quote from Thomas Jefferson, 1820:

"I regret that I am to die in the belief that the useless sacrifice of themselves by the generation of 1776, to acquire self-government and happiniess to their country, is to be thrown away by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons, and that my only consolation is to be, that I live not to weep over it.
If they would but dispassionately weigh the blessings they will throw away, against an abstract principle more likely to be effected by union than by secession, they would pause before they would perpetuate this act of suicide on themselves, and of treason against the hopes of the world.
To yourself, as the faithful advocate of the union, I tender the offering of my high esteem and respect."

To which Kalamata responds: "Joey's statements are always deceptive.
A few years later, Jefferson wrote this:"

"On every question of [of the constitution,] carry ourselves back to the time when the constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed."

So here, perhaps inadvertently, Kalamata posted two quotes from Thomas Jefferson which support my arguments and condemn Kalamata's.
In the first Jefferson condemns secession and praises Union.
In the second, Jefferson praises the core essence of conservatism: Founders' Original Intent.

But typical of Democrats Kalamata tells us that Jefferson praised secession, condemned the Union and insisted on meanings the Founders never expressed!