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To: Kalamata; DoodleDawg; jeffersondem; DiogenesLamp; rockrr; OIFVeteran; x
It's estimated that, all told, about 70,000 books have been written on the US Civil War, 15,000 on Lincoln alone.
Of those, in his post #665 Kalamata regales us with quotes from three.
Looking those three up, we can find basic information on them:
  1. James Randall, "Constitutional Problems Under Lincoln" -- 1926 (Revisionist School)

      "Randall argued in Civil War and Reconstruction that the war "could have been avoided, supposing of course that something more of statesmanship, moderation, and understanding, and something less of professional patrioteering, slogan-making, face-saving, political clamoring, and propaganda, had existed on both sides."
      But such had not been the case.
      In Randall's view, extremists in both sections emerged as villains, the abolitionist radicals worst of all.
      "Reforming zeal, in those individual leaders in whom it became most vociferous and vocal, was often unrelieved by wisdom, toleration, tact, and the sense of human values.... It was a major cause of the conflict itself."
      That is, minority elements inflamed sectional passions to a point where compromise, which might have been brought about by sensible and responsible men, became impossible. "

  2. Clinton Rossiter, "Constitutional Dictatorship: Crisis Government in the Modern Democracies" -- 1948 (Revisionist)

      "In particular, following the events of 9/11, Rossiter's first book, the 1948 Constitutional Dictatorship: Crisis Government in the Modern Democracies (reissued in 1963 with a new preface), was reprinted for the first time in nearly forty years.
      In that germinal study, Rossiter argued that constitutional democracies had to learn the lesson of the Roman Republic to adopt and use emergency procedures that would empower governments to deal with crises beyond the ordinary capacities of democratic constitutional governance but to ensure that such crisis procedures were themselves subject to constitutional controls and codified temporal limits."

  3. Edmund Wilson, "Patriotic Gore: studies in the literature of the American Civil War" -- 1962 (literature, Lost Causer)

      "The book begins with a controversial 23-page introduction in which Wilson presents his own understanding of the Civil War -- and of all modern wars -- as well as of Abraham Lincoln.
      Even though he was born and raised in New Jersey, Wilson saw the Civil War as an imperialistic war of conquest on the part of the North, hypocritically justified by the "rabble-rousing moral issue" of slavery.
      In his view, Lincoln was an "uncompromising dictator" comparable to Lenin and Bismarck."
With help from these scholars, Kalamata claims that Lincoln was a dictator and tyrant.
Beginning with Clinton Rossiter, who in 1948 argued positively that "Constitutional Democracies" must in emergencies act like the ancient Roman Republic and appoint dictators to rule temporarily.
He cites Lincoln as his example.
The problem for both Rossiter and Kalamata is that Lincoln's actions were not those of a "dictator", but rather were built into the President's job description by the Constitution (i.e., habeas corpus), Federal Laws (i.e, 1792 Militia Act, 1807 Insurrection Act) and Founders' historical precedents against rebellion, secession & treason, etc.

1926 classical Revisionist (meaning blames "hot heads" on both sides) James Randall gets quoted by Kalamata complaining that Lincoln refused in 1861 to even recognize or negotiate with Jefferson Davis' Confederate emissaries.
Even at Hampton Roads in 1865, Lincoln offered Confederates only surrender terms, never independence.
But that Randall quote does not mention Democrat President Buchanan, who also refused to recognize or negotiate with Confederate envoys.
And, it doesn't report that Lincoln believed Congress is constitutionally assigned disposition of Federal properties.
Indeed, this is yet another example where all those who claim "Lincoln the dictator" ignored the Constitution, in this case they want Lincoln to have ignored Congress's Constitutional authority over Federal properties.

Finally, Kalamata quotes from Edmund Wilson's (d. 1972) 1962 Lost Cause literary compilation.
Edmund Wilson was a Big Deal in the world of literature -- editor of Vogue and New Republic, a prolific author and critic of other writers:

Wilson was big into Marx & Freud, an anti-Cold Warrior, he was fined by the IRS and rewarded by President Kennedy.
Wilson's book, Patriotic Gore:

Wilson was a leftwing racist.

1,369 posted on 02/04/2020 3:39:59 AM PST by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: BroJoeK

I find it ironic that the group that was in the moral right, the abolitionist, are the ones most maligned by historians up until the late 20th century. Shows you how deep racism was in the entire country up till that time.


1,371 posted on 02/04/2020 4:59:53 AM PST by OIFVeteran
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To: BroJoeK; jeffersondem; DiogenesLamp; rockrr; Bull Snipe; HandyDandy; central_va
>>BroJoeK wrote: "It's estimated that, all told, about 70,000 books have been written on the US Civil War, 15,000 on Lincoln alone. Of those, in his post #665 Kalamata regales us with quotes from three. Looking those three up, we can find basic information on them:"

#1: James Randall, "Constitutional Problems Under Lincoln" -- 1926 (Revisionist School)
#2: Clinton Rossiter, "Constitutional Dictatorship: Crisis Government in the Modern Democracies" -- 1948 (Revisionist)
#3: Edmund Wilson, "Patriotic Gore: studies in the literature of the American Civil War" -- 1962 (literature, Lost Causer)

>>BroJoeK wrote: "With help from these scholars, Kalamata claims that Lincoln was a dictator and tyrant."

Ignorance is bliss:

"We northerners like to read about Lincoln the martyr and the dying god, but do we want to know about Lincoln the dictator who circumvented the Constitution to wage war on the South? His best generals would have a difficult time avoiding conviction by a war crimes tribunal according to the laws of war at that time for their plunder of Southern civilization. Would such a treatise find favor with the dyed-in-the-wool northern apologists who don't want to see any tarnish on the northern assault and conquest of the South? Is America ready for that kind of insight and history? I think so. I for one, as a northerner educated in sanitized Civil War history, find a more truthful account of that war as refreshing as our honest accounts of Vietnam."

[Charles W. Adams, "When in the Course of Human Events: Arguing the Case for Southern Secession." Rowman & Littlefield, 2000, p.3]

Joey has never read either of the three books he listed; but he knows he doesn't like them because the authors do not kiss Lincoln's behind 100% of the time.

Joey's posts are always deceitful. This is more from Adams on Lincoln the dictator:

"There are other similarities between Caesar 's story and that of Lincoln. Both held command of the military. Both suspended civilian authority. Both had indeed ridden roughshod over their respective constitutions. Both set up military rule and dictatorship. Both intimidated the civil authorities and tossed the constitution out the window in the interest of public safety. Both were assassinated as tyrants..."

"After the attack on Fort Sumter, Lincoln assumed dictatorial powers. He circumvented his constitutional duty to call Congress in times of emergency by delaying the meeting for almost three months. In the meantime, he made the decisions, which, according to the Constitution, the Congress should have made. The first thing he did was to call out the militia from the states to put down what he said was an insurrection in the South. Even assuming this to be true, it is the duty of Congress to make such a decision according to Article 1, section 8 of the U.S. Constitution: "The Congress shall have the power... To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppressing Insurrections and repel Invasions."

"Lincoln, through his secretary of state, called out the militia of twenty-four states, using as authority a 1795 act of Congress that gave the president authority to do so, providing that the authority would cease thirty days after the beginning of the next session of Congress. In other words, it was a temporary measure in the case of an emergency, to be ruled on by Congress as the Constitution requires. With the craft of an attorney, Lincoln delayed calling Congress for almost three months, in effect giving him four months to operate his military forces without any determination by the Congress. By then, he had the war in full operation, and the Congress could do little else than sanction his caesarian acts. Six of the governors saw through this subterfuge, refused his call for troops, and rebuked his constitutional gamesmanship…"

"If Lincoln had respected the provision in the Constitution that puts the power of calling out the militia with the Congress and not the president on his own, who knows what would have happened? The border states that joined the Confederacy after Lincoln 's call for troops would have had a voice in the Congressional debate that would have followed. War may have been averted, for it seems clear that an abundance of the people in both the North and South did not want war but a peaceful solution to the crisis."

"Under the Constitution, it is the duty of the president to call the Congress into session during "extraordinary occasions." Sumter, like Pearl Harbor, was such an occasion. Why didn 't Lincoln follow the commands of the Constitution and call the Congress forthwith? Why did he, on 15 April 1861, call Congress to meet almost three months later in July? And then only after he had driven the nation headlong into war? Obviously, he did not want Congress to get involved-did not want the Constitution to get involved. Lincoln was assuming all the powers of a dictator." [Ibid. pp.36-37]

Joey has never read either of the three books he listed; but he knows he doesn't like them because the authors do not kiss Lincoln's sorry behind 100% of the time.

Mr. Kalamata

1,401 posted on 02/04/2020 6:20:37 PM PST by Kalamata (BIBLE RESEARCH TOOLS: http://bibleresearchtools.com/)
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To: BroJoeK
>>BroJoeK wrote: "Beginning with Clinton Rossiter, who in 1948 argued positively that "Constitutional Democracies" must in emergencies act like the ancient Roman Republic and appoint dictators to rule temporarily. He cites Lincoln as his example. The problem for both Rossiter and Kalamata is that Lincoln's actions were not those of a "dictator", but rather were built into the President's job description by the Constitution (i.e., habeas corpus), Federal Laws (i.e, 1792 Militia Act, 1807 Insurrection Act) and Founders' historical precedents against rebellion, secession & treason, etc."

Joey's posts are always deceptive. The powers he listed are powers delegated to the Congress, not to the President:

Article I, Section 8 - Powers of Congress:

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Article I, Section 9 - Limits on Congress:

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

Lincoln usurped those powers from the Congress, which is tyranny, no matter how you squeeze it; but his actions were far, far more tyrannical. He was truly a dictator.

It is difficult to determine who was more blood-thirsty: Lincoln and his brutal generals, or the Congress and media that controlled the Northern narrative:

"In the Congress, there was a significant group of South haters, with murderous demands. The chairman of the Ways and Means Committee of the House of Representatives, Thaddeus Stevens, was willing that the South "be laid waste, and made a desert, in order to save this Union from destruction." Before a Republican state convention in September 1862, he urged the government to "slay every traitor-bum every Rebel Mansion.... unless we do this, we cannot conquer them." The New York Times wrote in March 1861 that the North should "destroy its commerce, and bring utter ruin on the Confederate states," and this was before the bombardment at Fort Sumter."

"Congressman Zachariah Chandler expressed the spirit of so many in the Congress: "A rebel has sacrificed all his rights. He has no right to life, liberty, property, or the pursuit of happiness. Everything you give him, even life itself, is a boon which he has forfeited."

Such sentiments found their way to the European observers of the war, who found them hard to believe from a civilized people. A correspondent for the pro-Northern Macmillan Magazine, in December 1863, wrote, "How can you subjugate such a people as this? And even supposing that their extermination were a feasible plan, as some Northerners suggested, I never can believe that in the nineteenth century the civilized world will be condemned to witness the destruction of such a gallant race."

"On 5 May 1861, this genocidal passion against the South found analysis in the New York Herald. It quoted the views of the abolitionists: "When the rebellious traitors are overwhelmed in the field, and scattered like leaves before an angry wind, it must not be to return to peaceful and contented homes. They must find poverty at their firesides, and see privation in the anxious eyes of mothers, and the rags of children."

"Another radical editor noted that the New York Herald called "for the punishment of all individuals in the South by hanging, and the confiscation of everybody's property in the seceding States." "Richmond," said another, "must be laid in ashes," and as for Baltimore, "it must become a heap of cinders and ashes, and its inhabitants ought either to be slaughtered, or scattered to the winds." Virginia and Maryland deserve to be "laid waste and made desolate" and 500,000 troops should "pour down from the North, leaving a desert track behind them." The editor responded, "Submission on the part of the South would not satisfy these bloody journalists of the Republican party. Far from it. They cry out: 'We mean not merely to conquer, but to subjugate.'" The editor then adds, "The people of the North are prepared for no such extremities as the brutal, bloodthirsty journals of the abolitionist school suggest."

"On 24 May 1861, the Daily Herald in Newburyport, Massachusetts, said that "if it were necessary, we could clear off the thousand millions of square miles so that not a city or cultivated field would remain; we could exterminate nine millions of white people and re-settle-re-people the lands. There is no want of ability; and if such a work is demanded, there would be no want of a will."

"It is no wonder that the Civil War generated hatred for the North and the Republican party among Southerners for well over a hundred years the bloodthirsty rhetoric of the radicals in the North in time found expression in the devastation of civilians and civilian property by Sherman, Sheridan, Grant, and the commander in chief-Lincoln. It didn't end with the war, for it was then carried on in a less violent form in the Reconstruction laws for the South by the radicals. The object was to exterminate the culture of the Southerners, and to subjugate then destroy the political force of the Southern establishment, and not just the planter-slave owner class. There was to be a new order in the South, excluding the established Southerners of all classes. The radicals succeeded for a while and then moved on, leaving a wasteland in which secret societies and lawlessness prevailed. Thus, in a sense, the Northerners did exterminate a society in every way except genocide. By contrast, no such genocidal threats were made by Southerners against the North."

[Charles W. Adams, "When in the Course of Human Events: Arguing the Case for Southern Secession." Rowman & Littlefield, 2000, pp.54-56]

Is it any wonder the Southerners wanted to secede from that bunch of psychopaths?

Mr. Kalamata

1,404 posted on 02/04/2020 8:08:52 PM PST by Kalamata (BIBLE RESEARCH TOOLS: http://bibleresearchtools.com/)
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To: BroJoeK

>>BroJoeK wrote: “Finally, Kalamata quotes from Edmund Wilson’s (d. 1972) 1962 Lost Cause literary compilation. Edmund Wilson was a Big Deal in the world of literature — editor of Vogue and New Republic, a prolific author and critic of other writers: . . . Wilson was big into Marx & Freud, an anti-Cold Warrior, he was fined by the IRS and rewarded by President Kennedy. Wilson’s book, Patriotic Gore: . . . “Wilson almost entirely ignores writers who are African-American, with Forten as an exception, notably lacking mention of Frederick Douglass.

The last clause is Joey’s obligatory link to the left-wing Wikipedia.

Did you notice he rarely gives references?

****************
>>BroJoeK wrote: “Wilson was a leftwing racist.”

So was Lincoln. Lincoln was also a white seperatist who sought to keep the blacks out of Illinois, and sincerely wanted them out of our nation. His goal of keeping slavery out of the territories was “code” for keeping all blacks out — for making the territories lily-white.

Mr. Kalamata


1,407 posted on 02/04/2020 8:41:05 PM PST by Kalamata (BIBLE RESEARCH TOOLS: http://bibleresearchtools.com/)
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