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To: Vermont Lt; Georgia Girl 2; daniel1212

There is a both/and approach available here. Christians accept demons as much as we accept angels, God, anything spiritual etc. If one is an absolute materialist, none of that makes any sense. I am not a strict materialist. I believe reality is more complex than the descriptive capability of any current models. So in broad terms, I accept that spiritual beings can interact with humanity. Furthermore, as one who accepts the description of Jesus in the Bible as true, I see that He did interact with angels and demons, and those interactions reveal said beings have means, motive and opportunity to deceive humans for various purposes.

As to why angels and demons might use more material means of interacting with humans than God, it is a misleading question. In Christian theology, God has interacted with humans in very big, physical ways. Jesus as the very real God-man. The feeding of the 5000. Where did the additional mass come from? The resurrection. The parting of the Red Sea. Force field extraordinaire? The great flood. A planned planetary culling? Etc. Given that angels/demons would be much more limited than God, maybe all they can put together at one time are a few scraps of cool looking metal to amaze us with. Just sayin ...

Still, as much as I believe all that, I also know the physical world is a crazy, creative place with lots of possibilities all its own. So for me it’s just not necessary in any given case to assume who or what lies behind such an alleged sighting. I think the jury is out on most of it. For my part, I also accept that God could create life anywhere in the universe, in any quantity, with any technological capability, up to an including solving the thorny problems of high speed space travel.

I also had relatives working deep inside the US aerospace industry who worked on things that could be related to such phenomena. Humanity has produced some truly brilliant minds, and no matter what you think you know about what we have created on our own, you are probably wrong to some degree. And at least some of that is by design.

The upshot? I think we should take each case one at a time. No sweeping generalizations. An object that appears to violate known physical principles or capabilities is in only ever in ‘apparent violation.’ Perhaps the object is indeed physically real but our common understanding of physics is too limited to describe its behavior. Perhaps the object is physical but it isn’t what it seems to be at all because our detection/reporting/perception of it is misleading us for some reason. Perhaps some of these events are purely mental/spiritual in nature, with zero footprint in the physical world. These are all forms of misunderstanding. And the only way you clear up a misunderstanding is with evidence. In the absence of evidence providing a clear answer, I think approaching it with an open mind is useful.


199 posted on 06/10/2019 12:46:35 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer

Normaly I think they cannot interact much with the physical world. They need to use visions and such to enter or influence people in their dream state. But right now it appears they can interact with the physical world. So hopefully the demons were sent packing.


203 posted on 06/10/2019 1:33:26 PM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: Springfield Reformer
That my FRiend is one hell of a comment. Broad and deep...capturing and expounding on a complex issue in terms that flow like cool, clear rainwater off a hot tin roof.

Congrats!!!

207 posted on 06/10/2019 3:23:30 PM PDT by RoosterRedux
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To: Springfield Reformer; redleghunter; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
There is a both/and approach available here. Christians accept demons as much as we accept angels, God, anything spiritual etc. If one is an absolute materialist, none of that makes any sense. I am not a strict materialist. I believe reality is more complex than the descriptive capability of any current models.

And so begins one of your well-reasoned quality posts, but if you think you can just jump in here without telling us WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN (for so long), well you are mistaken!

Good to see you back.

231 posted on 06/10/2019 8:10:37 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Springfield Reformer; RoosterRedux
God has interacted with humans in very big, physical ways. Jesus as the very real God-man. The feeding of the 5000. Where did the additional mass come from? The resurrection. The parting of the Red Sea. Force field extraordinaire? The great flood. A planned planetary culling? Etc. Given that angels/demons would be much more limited than God, maybe all they can put together at one time are a few scraps of cool looking metal to amaze us with. Just sayin ...

But how about turning a rod into a serpent, and which (along with two of the first miracles thru Moses) the Egyptian magicians duplicated.

Then you have the Lord coming thru closed doors in a glorified physical body and yet eating food. (Lk. 24) Where did the food go?

Seeing as God could supernaturally do such as well as stop the rotation of the earth (Joshua), enable a donkey to speak, and take living humans (Enoch, Elijah) into the heavenly realm without dying, while send the dead lost into tormenting flames with bodily sensations, yet in which a drop of water could apparently exist, then it should not be inconceivable for angels to be given a degree of such power, and likewise devils.

237 posted on 06/10/2019 8:34:31 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Springfield Reformer
Given that angels/demons would be much more limited than God, maybe all they can put together at one time are a few scraps of cool looking metal to amaze us with.

Just sayin …


Pharaoh had his magicians and Paul warned of false miracles.

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved”

2 Thessalonians 2:8-10, NIV


246 posted on 06/11/2019 4:48:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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