Jordan Peterson on Catholicism: ‘That’s as sane as people can get’

LifeSiteNews ^ | May 27, 2019 | John-Henry Westen

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“I know I’m in a state of grace. I hope always to be.”

Candidly, I doubt any human knows the depth of their sin - omission as well as commission.

Either Christ paid for it all or none.

Either you have given up on personal merit, works, rituals, etc., or you have not.

Either you have entrusted yourself to Him alone for salvation, or you are trusting something else.

As a result, you are either saved, or you are not.

I know Him, know my own sin, accepted His sacrifice alone, exercised saving faith in Him, am saved, am sealed, am the recipient of His imputed righteousness, and am saved.

I wish you the same.

A state of probationary grace sucks.

[ealgeone]

I never said, and never will say, that you are not part of the Church and a member of the Body of Christ. Are we not one in Christ?

Trent Horn from catholicanswers doesn't seem to think so.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/are-protestants-the-real-catholic-christians

[ealgeone]

I know I’m in a state of grace. I hope always to be.

You seem to be saying you know you are saved...which I'm glad to hear, but some of your fellow Roman Catholics have called that the sin of presumption....which would seem to place you out of a state of grace.

[ealgeone]

+1

[Mrs. Don-o]

The passage refers to the Church (as we are her offspring, defined in the text as "those who keep God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus" --- that would include all Christians.)

She is also Mary, since she is the Mother of the Messiah.

The woman is also portrayed as representing the People Of Israel,corresponding to the OT poetic metaphor or personification of the nation, "Daughter Zion" or "Daughter of Jerusalem". The image of the sun, the moon and the stars is taken from Gen. 37:9-10 and represents Jacob (Israel), Rachel and their sons.

This is something I have so very much appreciated in the Bible, the brilliant use of multivalent types and images.

[ealgeone]

The passage refers to the Church (as we are her offspring, defined in the text as "those who keep God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus" --- that would include all Christians.) She is also Mary, since she is the Mother of the Messiah.

I don't think you want to "see" Mary in Revelation.

If so....it's going to wipe out the Immaculate Conception and a lot of Roman Catholic thought on her being an "ever" virgin.

[boatbums]

I repeat my conclusion, think about how joyful your life could be if you had the confidence that you were held by the hands of God and NOTHING can pluck you out of them. Think about how much more fulfilling your life could be if you started living for God out of love and gratitude for His amazing grace and not because you fear going to hell.

I hope you do. I’ll pray for you.

[MHGinTN]

In the Revelation, John numbered an army of 200,000,000 (two hundred million). He also stated a number so large no man could number it comes OUT OF THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION into Heaven. Now you see why I keep telling Catholics who exhibit a ‘not yet saved’ attitude toward The RISEN Lord Christ to ‘not take the mark of the beast. These same Catholics have placed faith in their priests that they believe feed to them the real flesh and blood of the crucified Jesus. The great lie which is coming will be more powerful deception than merely a religion claiming to feed real flesh and blood in a wafer..

[cornelis]

Where is what?

[Elsie]

And MY grandson just graduated from WP.

Posted to Ft. Benning.

[ealgeone]

The dogmatically defined verses of Scripture you claim Rome has.

[Elsie]

the exact same scripture and historical evidence

PROTs read the Scripture without being spun by Rome's 'evidence' and come up with totally different answers.

---

I wonder what the Change Agent is???

[Elsie]

Opinions are like; uh; elbows...

Yeah; that’s the ticket!

[Elsie]

The story of Francis' deviations from Catholic doctrine is long and complicated;

Remember; I'm a PROT. I can't DO complicated.

Just gimme some simple stuff.

[Elsie]

You might want to do a user search on FReeper ebb tide,

Yes, ET seems to have a; uh; special kind of fixation about the leader of the Roman Catholic Church.

[metmom]

Grace is God's UNDESERVED favor, giving us something we DON'T deserve. If we merit it, then somehow we deserve it, and it immediately ceases to be grace and is now payment due.

Grace only kicks in when there is sin. If a person were sinless, they would not need God's grace.

Romans 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

If you do activities to *merit* grace, then you are expecting pay, not grace.

Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eternal life in Christ is a FREE GIFT. You do not work to merit a gift. Nor do you work to merit forgiveness. Forgiveness by it's very nature is a gift freely given.

If you have to do something to merit grace, you have just nullified the whole thing and then God becomes indebted to you for the work you did or the activities you performed.

There is NOTHING we as humans can do to get God to love us any more than He already does.

Romans 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:10-11 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

...and nothing we can do to get Him to give us the grace we need.

Throw yourself on the mercy of the court and God WILL save you and keep you saved.

All He wants is our trust and taking Him at His word. He certainly doesn't need us to DO anything for Him.

[Elsie]

Leave the Church, the Bride of Christ, as She enters her greatest earthly suffering and trial?

 

Leave Her as She is betrayed and facing the Dragon, who seeks to devour her and her other offspring??

Have you mixed your metaphors here?

---

 

I've always heard that this 'woman' mentioned here is MARY.

Now you make her out to be the church.

 

See; I AM a confused PROT! (or you are a confused Catholic ;^)

 

---

Revelation 12 New International Version (NIV)

 

1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.
11
They triumphed over him
    by the blood of the Lamb
    and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
    as to shrink from death.
12
Therefore rejoice, you heavens
    and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
    because he knows that his time is short.”

13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

[metmom]

ealgeone posted this in post 77 ...”I’ve yet to see a Roman Catholic do an exegetical breakdown of a section of Scripture.”

And in post 83 you responded with.....”I read that twice, and I had to laugh a second time.”

Now, if you find that funny, why is that? Do you think it’s happened? Cause I don’t ever recall seeing it either and if has been posted, I would like to see it as I am sure ealgeone would.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“The passage refers to the Church (as we are her offspring, defined in the text as “those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus” -— that would include all Christians.)
“
She is also Mary, since she is the Mother of the Messiah.”

...

The passage is about a specific group - Israel.

It is not about the Church.

You have to ignore the rest of the book and the OT to make this about the Church.

Nor is it legitimate to make this about both groups, since God has a different plan for each.

The. Catholic wants so much to make Mary into that which God never did.

In this case, “study to show yourself approved.”

[Elsie]

God helping me, may I never run, may I never desert my post.

Nor should you.

As long as you continue to believe that Revelation 18 does NOT apply.