I'm not trying to be facetious.
"Lincoln started war at Fort Sumter" is Lost Causer orthodoxy on Free Republic threads, with countless electrons spurred into motion defending or attacking such claims.
"Lincoln invaded the South to stop secession" is the only narrative Lost Causer's here even recognize.
And the reason Lincoln wanted to stop secession, they claim, was 100% economic, to prevent Northern collapse from the loss of $200 million in Southern exports.
BDParrish: " It was widely thought that we had been at war for a long time when Ruffin was granted the privilege of firing the “first shot” of the war.
But everyone agreed that this would be the official start of the war otherwise it makes no sense to have Ruffin fire the cannon."
You'll make no FRiends among Lost Causers with talk like that.
They insist that Lincoln started war by ordering his "war fleet" to "attack" Confederates in Charleston.
No war fleet, no war, they claim.
As for war starting before Fort Sumter, of course I'd agree with that except for: before Fort Sumter the Union never fired back, pushed back or took back anything seized by Confederates.
Fort Sumter was the first serious response to Confederate aggressions against Union properties and officials.
BDParrish: "Yours is the typical Yankee position with no surprises really... "
I have no idea what "the typical Yankee position" is, have simply responded as best I can to whatever is the latest Lost Causer nonsense posted here.
My opinions, so far as I can tell, are in accord with our Founders, especially as expressed by Madison.
You disagree?
Yes that is how I understand the position which I have heard all my life. I never thought that it mattered who fired the first shot or even where or when the shooting started. "Well, HE started it!" is playground talk, and does not bear on either side's moral argument. At least I would not be interested in anyone's moral position if it hinged on such a mere fact.
I can understand why the fighting children on the playground will say that to the teachers who come to break it up, but I don't think there would be any valuable instruction in their explanations. "But he was about to attack ME!!" I like the playground analogy in discussion of the causes of the war for various reasons but the "Who started it?" question does not in my humble opinion give virtue to either side's moral argument so I will continue ignore it.
I enjoy these posts by you. You have a good mind and you seem to have more actual historical knowledge about the subject than any Yankee I ever interacted with. My wife is from East Longmeadow, Mass. They will say, "You people are still fighting the war down there." We will reply, "What? You mean it's OVER???" Always gets a laugh.
I would love to spend an afternoon with you over this. And would you ping me next time all this comes up? I am out on your final with many thanks!