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To: DiogenesLamp; BroJoeK
There were slaves in a lot of Northern states, but the great body of people in the North were not concerned so much with these small bits of slavery here and there, they objected mostly to the large scale plantation farming that employed thousands of slaves.

Read your own article. There were 18 slaves left in New Jersey in 1860, and none in the states to the north or east. That is not a lot.

They would have tolerated this small scale slavery in the territories just as much as they tolerated it in their own states, were it not for the hyped propaganda which had them believing new plantations would be opening up in the territories.

It's not really the same thing. 18 or 236 slaves with no prospect of more slaves or new slaves is different from several thousand slaves with prospects for more new slaves. Northerners really might not have cared if Kansas had 200 or 20 people enslaved for the rest of their lives with no possibility of additional slaves.

If Kansans and Nebraska had slaveowners who were reconciled to the fact that slavery was becoming a thing of the past, other Americans probably would have been reconciled to that. But if Kansas and Nebraska had slaveowners who were committed to the growth and expansion of slavery - even into free states - of course those in the free states would be concerned.

George Washington would have felt the same way. He was a slaveowner uneasy with the idea of slavery, a slaveowner who hoped the institution would eventually disappear. Some people say the same thing about Robert E. Lee. Whether that's true or not, it's hypocritical if you respect such men and attack Northerners for attitudes that weren't entirely different.

203 posted on 07/12/2018 2:48:46 PM PDT by x
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To: x
Read your own article. There were 18 slaves left in New Jersey in 1860, and none in the states to the north or east. That is not a lot.

It is not "none", and it is probably about what they would have had in Kansas had everyone ignored it.

It's not really the same thing. 18 or 236 slaves with no prospect of more slaves or new slaves is different from several thousand slaves with prospects for more new slaves.

And that's just what i'm saying. The climatological evidence indicates they were never going to grow enough cotton in Kansas to worry about large numbers of slaves in the state.

But if Kansas and Nebraska had slaveowners who were committed to the growth and expansion of slavery - even into free states - of course those in the free states would be concerned.

I think they were concerned that it become a "slave" state as a political point, but didn't really care as a practical matter, because it obviously wasn't practical to have any significant slavery in Kansas. Symbol over substance.

George Washington would have felt the same way. He was a slaveowner uneasy with the idea of slavery, a slaveowner who hoped the institution would eventually disappear.

In the latter part of his life. Earlier he had no qualms about it. I've rad Washington's writings on the subject. One of his common concerns was finding things for his slaves to do that were sufficiently profitable to cover the costs of running his estates.

Some people say the same thing about Robert E. Lee. Whether that's true or not, it's hypocritical if you respect such men and attack Northerners for attitudes that weren't entirely different.

One of my long running arguments is that the Northerners were no different from the Southerners in their disdain for the black man. Most Northern opposition was to the very idea of black people living in their state. Most of their concerns over slavery were concerns of free labor versus paid wages. A person selling their labor for wages cannot compete against someone who works for free, and the economic threat this poses creates quite a lot of hatred on that basis alone.

But the historians would have us believe that the Northerners were motivated by the milk of human kindness when they invaded the states of the South to reassert Washington DC control over people who did not want it.

But the truth is, the Northern people hated blacks, and hated economic competition from them, and most of them did not care about the well being of blacks.

I just read yesterday that in the aftermath of the Civil War, hundreds of thousands of blacks died, mostly of starvation. Disrupting the economic system that kept them fed and housed was done too quickly.

As George W Bush didn't seemingly have a plan for victory in Iraq, it appears Lincoln didn't have a plan for victory in the South either. Well... not one that included the well being of blacks anyway.

204 posted on 07/12/2018 3:13:05 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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