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To: rustbucket
Good aggregation of information, but pointless I think. Our opposition is driven by an emotional need to see a distinction between what the 13 slave owning colonies did, and what the 11 slave owning states did.

They will heed nothing that interferes with what they wish to believe.

147 posted on 07/09/2018 7:51:55 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
Good aggregation of information, but pointless I think. ... Our opposition ... ... will heed nothing that interferes with what they wish to believe.

I had previously posted the information in post 108 in bits and pieces over many years. When it came time to find a specific quote or data, I had to search through my thousands of posts or find them in a small index I have of some of my posts.

I struggled with how to simplify my searches and make them less time consuming. Putting a large number of quotes and data into one post will make it easier for me to find specific related pieces of information in the future. I decided I would put a lot of information in one post. I'll be able to check post 108 to find information on secession, the ratifying conventions, statements by Founders, etc. That was why I made the post so long. I had an ulterior motive.

You are no doubt correct that my post won't affect our usual opponents. And the reverse/corollary is probably true as well. Both sides should provide backup for their arguments and try to avoid insults.

151 posted on 07/09/2018 9:27:26 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: DiogenesLamp; rustbucket; gandalftb; x; jeffersondem; rockrr; DoodleDawg
rustbucket post #108: "In 1788-90 states had peaceably, unilaterally and with the approval of their own state conventions withdrawn from Union under the Articles of Confederation."

DiogenesLamp #147: "Good aggregation of information, but pointless I think.
Our opposition is driven by an emotional need to see a distinction between what the 13 slave owning colonies did, and what the 11 slave owning states did."

Among our Lost Causers, rustbucket is exceptionally honest, straightforward and thorough, orders of magnitude more so than, for examples, DiogenesLamp or jeffersondem.
Still his argument cannot be made without lying about it, as we see in the line quoted above.

In fact, the word "unilaterally" is a lie because "secession" in 1788 was done peacefully & lawfully by mutual consent, not "unilaterally".
The truth is that no legitimate Founder at any time ever proposed or supported unilateral, unapproved declaration of secession at pleasure, meaning absent the kinds of compelling necessity spelled out in their Declaration of Independence.

167 posted on 07/10/2018 10:07:05 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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