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To: BroJoeK; jeffersondem; rockrr; Colonel Kangaroo; DoodleDawg; Bull Snipe; DiogenesLamp

I still own the timber that my family hid slaves on. The ruins of the cabin are still there.

My great-great grandfather took wagons to the dock at Clayton, IA picked up the escaping slaves there and sent them on through the network of Methodist abolitionists north to Minnesota and Canada.

Just plain fact that abolitionists violated federal law helping fugitive slaves. There were many in NE IA along the MI River.

Google “Sny Magill”. Donald Magill was a Scotsman that was in my family circle, son of a local indian trader, fought at Vicksburg and was so traumatized that he retreated to the valley of Sny Magill very near my family farm, rarely ever spoke again. The valley and forest reserve is named after his father’s trading post.

My grandfather knew him and I saw the remains of his cabin when I was a boy.

There is also a book “The History of Clayton County”, published in 1873. It talks a great deal about the run up to the war from an IA perspective.

But then again, this could all be utter nonsense by some poser that continues this endless debate, hoping to enlighten both sides.


133 posted on 07/07/2018 6:52:17 PM PDT by gandalftb
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To: gandalftb; DiogenesLamp; jeffersondem; x; rockrr
gandalftb: "But then again, this could all be utter nonsense by some poser that continues this endless debate, hoping to enlighten both sides."

"Poser" is the easiest explanation, otherwise things get... complicated.
As I said, unless your ancestors were Kansas Jayhawkers or part of John Brown's family, they committed no violence against slavers before 1861.

So what exactly were they "guilty" of, helping the Underground Railroad?
And they did this in violation of orders from Federal officials?
No, of course not, they were unhindered by Federal law enforcement -- law enforcement that was under strict control of Democrats in Washington, DC.

Why were Democrats so lackadaisical about enforcing their own Fugitive Slave laws?
Because there were too few Fugitives to make a difference in their 4 million slave population -- a few dozen a month, nearly all from anti-slavery Border State areas (i.e., Missouri, Maryland).
Those fugitives made no serious difference in the Deep South until... until... until they needed an excuse for declaring secession and then suddenly Fugitive Slaves became their defining constitutional breech.
Indeed, slavers' need for a Constitutional breech may help explain why there was so little enforcement in the first place.

So the Underground Railroad became a fig leaf Deep South Fire Eaters used to cover otherwise totally "at pleasure" and therefore unconstitutional declarations of secession.

See, DiogenesLamp, anybody can play your ludicrous conspiracy games.

136 posted on 07/08/2018 5:05:10 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: gandalftb
My great-great grandfather took wagons to the dock at Clayton, IA picked up the escaping slaves there and sent them on through the network of Methodist abolitionists north to Minnesota and Canada.

Just plain fact that abolitionists violated federal law helping fugitive slaves. There were many in NE IA along the MI River.

Looking at a map, it leads me to believe that any slaves escaping through Iowa likely came through Missouri, which was a Union slave state during the war. I recall you saying Iowa Militia wanted to take up arms against the other slave states, but did it not occur to them to attack the closest slave state?

What's up with that? Why go so far to fight slavery when they could have fought it so much closer?

Also when they were helping slaves escaping from Missouri, was this not hurting their fellow ally Missouri?

Lots of mixed up stuff in this conflict.

145 posted on 07/09/2018 7:27:36 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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