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To: DiogenesLamp

I agree with you about the Deep State (Jesuit banksters?) in Lincoln’s day.

But I also agree that Lincoln sweated over and hated slavery.

“A man’s word’s betray his heart” and Lincoln’s Douglas debates as well as all the rest of his writings prove old Abe cared deeply about the moral issue of slavery that threatened the beauty of our Constitutional ideals.

As a Christian, I believe God is intimately involved in the affairs of men, and that He put the burden of the sinful horror of slavery upon Lincoln.

That said, I completely agree with you that Lincoln waged an economic Civil War.


101 posted on 07/07/2018 7:32:32 AM PDT by Sontagged (TY Lord Jesus for being the Way, the Truth & the Life. Have mercy on those trapped in the Snake Pit!)
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To: Sontagged; DiogenesLamp
Sontagged: "I agree with you about the Deep State (Jesuit banksters?) in Lincoln’s day."

But the key point which our Lost Causers always ignore is that in 1860, just as today, those "Deep Staters" were Democrats, not Republicans.
They were the economic, political and social allies of the great Southern Slave-Power, they voted with Southern Democrats, they supported Southern concerns even to the point of secession.
In New York they wanted to secede along with the Deep South.

Indeed, those Deep State Northern Democrats supported their Southern brethren until, until... until secessionists turned on them, renounced their debts, suspended payments and even withheld their exports -- "cotton diplomacy" they called it.
Suddenly secession hit Northern Democrats where it truly hurt and they began to see the wisdom of "preserving the Union".

But DiogenesLamp claims those Democrats "pulled Lincoln's strings", forcing him to "start war at Fort Sumter" and that part of his story is pure fantasy, worthy of a JK Rowling novel.



131 posted on 07/07/2018 3:34:54 PM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: Sontagged
I agree with you about the Deep State (Jesuit banksters?) in Lincoln’s day.

I think it was more than bankers. I think it was the shipping moguls, Insurance people, warehousing people, manufacturing people. In short, I think it was everyone who was making money off of the South's trade with Europe.

But I also agree that Lincoln sweated over and hated slavery.

I think Lincoln actually hated slavery, but I am less sure about this than I was at one time, because i've seen so many examples of him massaging the appearance of his conduct to place it in a better light.

He was from Kentucky, and I believe he had an uncle that had slaves, and so it's a little unclear how he might have developed a hatred for slavery having grown up amongst it. I now believe this may have been an artifice meant to appeal to the voting segment he saw as his path to power

He may have projected this as his public persona, and perhaps he even convinced himself over time that this was correct, but it seems strange that he would eschew his own culture and embrace that of others.

As a Christian, I believe God is intimately involved in the affairs of men, and that He put the burden of the sinful horror of slavery upon Lincoln.

You can look at it that way. You could also look at Joseph Stalin as the instrument of God in defeating the Nazis. But if you look at Joseph Stalin in that way, it becomes unclear why God would work through such an evil man who murdered more people than did the Nazis.

Maybe Stalin wasn't the instrument of God, and perhaps Lincoln wasn't either? I've noted in these discussions how much personal suffering the Lincoln family endured during the war years, and i've expressed bafflement that God would so badly treat a man doing God's work.

One would think God would at least shield and protect a righteous man from tragedy and his enemies.

That said, I completely agree with you that Lincoln waged an economic Civil War.

The evidence shows this clearly to be the case. I did not even know of this three years ago, and I finally started to realize the truth because I became aware of two pieces of information that didn't make any sense.

1. New York paid most of the tariffs (taxes) into Washington DC.
2. The South produced 80% of all export value, and import values must roughly balance, therefore the South was producing most of the money that ended up in New York.

What I couldn't understand was why the money was ending up in New York when it was produced in the South.

144 posted on 07/09/2018 7:15:23 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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