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To: Bull Snipe
(who ever that was)

Secretary of War, among others.

Also the "National Republican" newspaper, which was the Party Organ of Lincoln at the time.

Anderson had no orders from his military superiors to abandon Federal property to the Confederates.

Indeed, he had an order from Buchanan to hold these properties.

The military on scene commander (Anderson) abandon Moultrie because he could not defend it with 110 men.

He couldn't hold any of it. If he had 10,000 men he couldn't have held it. It was asinine to even attempt it.

Every gun that Beauregard possessed was pointed toward Sumter.

This is incorrect. I've read Beauregard's after action statements in which he said he deliberately held a large part of his artillery in reserve to be used upon the Warships should they attack. I might be able to find them again with a bunch of searching, but i'm not going to do it now. I'm just telling you they are out there.

Nonsense. He had orders from Davis to reduce Sumter by all means at his disposal before the resupply force arrived.

A resupply force is a contradiction. It was a "force" of eight armed ships with cannons and riflemen, and it had orders to FORCE it's way into Sumter, and to there install a larger force of men to resist further.

It was D@Mn stupid, and it was impossible for it to accomplish it's stated mission. Abner Doubleday said every ship would have been sunk. In fact, it is quite clear that Lincoln very much knew it could not possibly accomplish it's mission, (Anderson had sent maps of the Confederate strengths and armaments) and so the sending of it's command ship (Powhatan) to Florida under a British flag, was clearly a deliberate effort to insure that the Ships did not actually engage.

Let me rephrase that. It was D@mn stupid if the ships were really expected to do what they had been ordered to do. If they were intended to just sit in the water off the coast long enough to provoke the Confederates into attacking the fort, then it wasn't stupid at all. It was diabolically clever.

So which is it, Stupid or Clever? Don't say it was a "mistake." It wasn't. There is too much specificity to it to be a mistake. One does not make secret orders giving a Lieutenant command of a Naval Warship while relieving a well respected Captain.

Beauregard open fire with total disregard for what ever naval force was to appear.

So you are going to stick with this? Well I guess i'll have to go look for those reports I read. Maybe I can remember where I saw them.

But here's a question. Would it change your opinion about anything if you found out Beauregard actually did reserve batteries for the Warship attack which didn't come?

I doubt it. You've been immersed too long in what people have been telling you all these years.

986 posted on 06/05/2018 3:46:24 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp

Show me in Mercers orders or Foxes orders where it says that they are to FORCE Their way into Fort Sumter. They are authorized to use force only if the resupply effort is resisted. That is what is written into their orders. Unlike your orders to Beauregard, I can provide those orders if you desire.

“There is too much specificity to it to be a mistake. One does not make secret orders giving a Lieutenant command of a Naval Warship while relieving a well respected Captain:

What the hell are you talking about?

By all means go back and look up where Beauregard set aside a large portion of his artillery just in case it was needed to fight off the ships. Until you do, it just your theory.
and I would not change my opinions based on your recollections of thing you thought may have read some time ago.


988 posted on 06/05/2018 5:57:50 PM PDT by Bull Snipe
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To: DiogenesLamp; Bull Snipe
DiogenesLamp: "A resupply force is a contradiction.
It was a 'force' of eight armed ships with cannons and riflemen, and it had orders to FORCE it's way into Sumter, and to there install a larger force of men to resist further.
It was D@Mn stupid, and it was impossible for it to accomplish it's stated mission.
Abner Doubleday said every ship would have been sunk."

DiogenesLamp continues to post this last lie despite having been corrected now many times.
Capt. Doubleday in Fort Sumter first proposed the plan which became the Lincoln/Fox resupply mission.
It was to send supplies by rowboats from ships anchored off-shore at night, under cover of darkness and even fog.
It was a totally realistic plan and would have succeeded if Anderson had held out a few days longer.

And DiogenesLamp does or would know this if he'd ever read his own source materials.

1,057 posted on 06/09/2018 10:04:14 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: DiogenesLamp; Bull Snipe
Bull Snipe: "Beauregard open fire with total disregard for what ever naval force was to appear."

DiogenesLamp: "Would it change your opinion about anything if you found out Beauregard actually did reserve batteries for the Warship attack which didn't come?"

Remember the sequence of events:

  1. On April 8, Lincoln advised SC Governor Pickens he was sending a resupply mission to Fort Sumter.

  2. On ~April 10, Davis ordered Beauregard to "reduce" Fort Sumter if he believed the Union intended to replenish it.

  3. On April 11, Beauregard did believe Lincoln's announced intentions and demanded Anderson's surrender, then began military assault when Anderson refused.

So the size of Lincoln's "war armada" was irrelevant to Davis, as was any Beauregard reserve force.
What did matter, instead, was Beauregard's own admission he had only 48 hours of ammunition, meaning if Anderson had only held out a couple more days, the Lincoln/Fox resupply plan would be successful.

1,058 posted on 06/09/2018 10:16:17 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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