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To: jeffersondem; HandyDandy; DiogenesLamp
jeffersondem: "The Southerners of 1861 were sons and grandsons in the tradition of Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Henry, and the Lees.
They fought for government justified by the consent of the governed."

Except that in 1787 freed-blacks could vote in Delaware, Maryland, New Hampshire, New York, Massachusetts & Pennsylvania, while none could vote in the 1861 Confederacy.

So "consent of the governed" meant something very different to Confederates than it did to our Founders.

jeffersondem: "The Castros do not have a legitimate claim to govern under any theory other than they have a majority of the bayonets."

Amazingly, the same theory used to maintain slavery in the Confederacy.
And we'll ignore for now the fact that Castro was very popular among average Cubans, in the beginning.

jeffersondem: "But, go ahead and play the Marxist card."

Marxist historical dialectics emphasizing economics and class warfare, to the exclusion of all other human motives, seem to be the specialty of our Lost Cause mythologizers.

1,073 posted on 06/09/2018 11:50:22 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: BroJoeK; DiogenesLamp; HandyDandy; OIFVeteran; Bull Snipe; DoodleDawg
“Except that in 1787 freed-blacks could vote in Delaware, Maryland, New Hampshire, New York, Massachusetts & Pennsylvania, while none could vote in the 1861 Confederacy.”

The original slave states were New York, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Delaware and Maryland.

Oh yes, Virginia, North and South Carolina, and Georgia were slave states too.

Of the original 13 states, 13 were slave states.

None of the slave states allow slaves to vote. And all the original states voted to enshrine slavery into the United States constitution.

1,074 posted on 06/09/2018 1:12:44 PM PDT by jeffersondem
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To: BroJoeK
“Except that in 1787 freed-blacks could vote in Delaware, Maryland, New Hampshire, New York, Massachusetts & Pennsylvania, while none could vote in the 1861 Confederacy.”

You have never mentioned it, so I was shocked to learn what the Lincoln administration was doing to black soldiers as late as 1864. This was long after the Gettysburg address in which Lincoln is reported to have embraced the concept that “all men are created equal.”

“In November 1863, Sergeant William Walker of the 3rd South Carolina Infantry took dramatic action to express a grievance shared by thousands of African American troops in the Union Army.

“The 23-year-old former slave “did unlawfully take command” of Company A and march the troops to his commanding officer’s tent. There, as court-martial specifications later documented, he “ordered them to stack arms,” and when asked what this meant, replied, “We will not do duty any longer for seven dollars per month.” Walker refused an order to return to duty and told his company “to let their arms alone and go to their quarters.” They did, and “thereby excited and joined in a general mutiny.”

“The young sergeant would pay for his defiance with his life. Despite a plea that he and his comrades had “only contemplated a peaceful demand for the rights and benefits that had been guaranteed them,” a military tribunal found Walker guilty of mutiny. He would be executed by firing squad on February 29, 1864.”

https://www.militarytimes.com/military-honor/black-military-history/2018/02/12/black-union-soldiers-fought-a-costly-battle-for-equal-pay/

1,076 posted on 06/09/2018 1:21:48 PM PDT by jeffersondem
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To: BroJoeK; DoodleDawg; OIFVeteran; Bull Snipe; DiogenesLamp; HandyDandy

“And we’ll ignore for now the fact that Castro was very popular among average Cubans, in the beginning.”

Sounds like you are contemplating a future combining of the Marxist Card with a Castro-length argument.


1,081 posted on 06/09/2018 1:58:53 PM PDT by jeffersondem
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