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To: DiogenesLamp
DiogenesLamp: "You plead "colossal stupidity" as your defense?
Lincoln was not a stupid man.
He was in fact a very clever man."

And exactly what was Lincoln's military experience in April, 1861?
That's right, in 1832 during the Black Hawk war Lincoln had been voted Captain of his militia unit.
He fought no battles and lead no difficult missions.
He certainly had no Navy experience -- zero, zip, nada Navy -- much less the sort of combined arms operation contemplated by Captain Fox.

Furthermore, Lincoln then was under the most intense pressure anyone can imagine and stress & fatigue never make us smarter, always make us more prone to errors, even the simplest of them.

That's what Occam's razor says, and I see no reason to think otherwise.

DiogenesLamp: "Being attacked is not required for them to use force.
Just parking boats in the channel is sufficient cause for the fleet to use force. "

But "parking" boats by itself would in no way seriously impede or prevent Lincoln's resupply mission, only actual force could stop them.
And your suggestion that Confederates may even have tried to block Union ships with row-boats is absurd and I'm sure you know it.

The fact remains that Lincoln's resupply mission had a good chance of success given calm seas and cover of darkness, or even fog.
But rightly or wrongly, Major Anderson decided otherwise.

DiogenesLamp: "So they could batter the fort to pieces, but they couldn't hit any of the boats or ships that would be trying to reach it?
Boats which would have been closer to them than Sumter actually was? "

Boats moving under cover of darkness, or even fog.
Good chance of success.

DiogenesLamp: "I'll tell you what is a kooky conspiracy theory.
The idea that people would have been able to run that gauntlet of cannon fire without getting sunk."

I'll tell you what you can do, you can prove it to yourself, pal.
Go look up and find America's best sniper, a Chris Kyle class shooter who can hit a small target using a scope from a mile away.
Now sit down and buy him a beer so you can ask him the most important question: can the world's best sniper hit a moving target that he can't see in the dark?

If he tells you "yes", then buy him another beer, and another, until he confesses the real truth of it.


238 posted on 04/18/2018 2:49:22 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
And exactly what was Lincoln's military experience in April, 1861?

You think sending a war fleet with orders to attack (if impeded) but paralyzing it so it would just sit there in a menacing fashion, was a military exercise?

Lincoln was a master at politics. He was a master at employing verbal jujitsu in the Court room too. You should read up on him.

Besides, he had a lot of military experts telling him that it was impossible to succor Sumter, so his idea didn't make any military sense anyway.

And your suggestion that Confederates may even have tried to block Union ships with row-boats is absurd and I'm sure you know it.

It wasn't my suggestion, it was your attempt to say silly things and attribute them to me. They had three steamers which they had contemplated using for this purpose, and they had already sunk obstacles in the various alternative channels. Only ships with drafts of less than 7 feet could reach Sumter, and they could only come up through the channel closest to the cannons on the one side.

Boats moving under cover of darkness, or even fog. Good chance of success.

They had barges loaded with firewood that would be lit on fire in the approach. Did you even seriously look at what they had ready to deal with those ships?

Go look up and find America's best sniper, a Chris Kyle class shooter who can hit a small target using a scope from a mile away.

When you have timed fuses on your mortars, it will throw enough shrapnel on every thing below it such that you don't have to worry about hitting a small target. They had a lot of mortars, and they had had lots of time to get their range and elevation.

240 posted on 04/18/2018 3:04:13 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: BroJoeK

I wonder why Lampie doesn’t want to touch those social changes he mentioned?


243 posted on 04/18/2018 7:49:52 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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