I’ve seen these Civil War threads for the 16 years I’ve been on FR, and stayed mostly off them due to the rancor they inspire (now the reason I mostly stay off the Religion threads too but still fail on occasion there). I thought I’d add a comment though because something has struck me this morning in this conversation about the economics of it all. I really do think it all comes down to money.
First, I don’t think it can be questioned that the war initially started because of slavery. I say this because the South was (and I guess even today arguably is) the main source of wealth creation in the country. So why would the North dare to start a war with the South over any issue, if it wasn’t for a very good reason. Slavery must have been the main reason it was started because economically speaking it wasn’t a good move at all for the North to go to war with the South.
With that said, before all Dixie-lovers get in a tizzy, let me also say that slavery may have been the reason it started, but the reason it continued and how it ended had little to do with slavery, for the same reason (economics). When the war ended, and the North had won, if the North really was all about the Constitution and respected it, as part of the terms the North would have said, “You can remain a Confederate, you just can’t have slavery anymore”. That is, if the North really was only interested in the slavery issue. But clearly it wasn’t.
It was then (and obviously even now) more interested in keeping the States united under control of a Federal Government, and so trampled over the rights of the States to decide their own independent fate. It was so motivated then (and again arguably now) because of again money. It needed the economic engine of the South to survive, so forced the South back into the United States of America, thus ruining the original intent of Federalism, which was to only have a limited Federal Government whose only job was to provide for a common defense. Not to collect taxes and manage the affairs of the States with those taxes.
So for these reasons, it seems all regularly involved in these Civil War threads are both right (or both wrong depending how one looks at it I guess). The War started because of slavery but ended with a desire to increase Federal power.
IMO of course.
I write all of this as a 100% “Yankee”. I’ve never spent more than a couple weeks down in the South on vacations (but love the food and the people there).
I believe you have that exactly backwards. In 1860, the South payed 75% of the costs of running the Federal Government, and they employed the vast bulk of the Northern Shipping fleet in carrying their goods to Europe. 200 Million per year was flowing through the New York economy precisely because of the Tariff's and shipping laws instituted in Washington DC.
If the South were permitted to become independent, not only would all this money be lost to New York and Washington DC, the additional revenues achieved by cutting out New York and Washington could have been used to build competing industries in the South.
A Lot of Wealthy and powerful men stood to lose a great deal of current and future revenue if the South was allowed to trade directly with Europe outside of their control.
So my point here is that the North East very badly needed a war with the South precisely because of economic reasons. If they ever allowed the South to have direct economic trade with Europe, many of their industries would have been badly damaged economically.
It needed the economic engine of the South to survive, so forced the South back into the United States of America,
This is incorrect. The "economic engine" of the South was slavery. Once you have eradicated that, you have no "economic engine" in the South that could produce the same profits it did pre-war. This is one of the reasons why the South became mostly impoverished after the war.
What the North did was say "If we can't have that economic engine, we are going to make sure nobody can have it." For the first two years of the war, they were going to keep slavery. It was only after they realized the South would not stop fighting, that they decided to destroy slavery.
Washington and New York originally wanted the slave based money system in the South to continue. They just wanted to make sure the money circulated through their hands. When they saw that the money was going to stop, that's when they decided they had to have a war.