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To: Elsie
Elsie: It makes it easy to claim that one cannot lose their salvation because they never had it to lose.

Yes, what Jesus says about it as recorded time and again in the Scriptures makes it abundantly clear. My perception is that it is only those who want to exercise pride in their own holiness and reserve an excuse for retaining habitual sinfulness as a lifestyle who are the ones that cannot accept this transparent unambiguous doubly guaranteed promise to the convicted sinner.

Elsie: Sorry; but I can't go down that road.

Too bad, because that's exactly what the grammar of John 3:16 and John 6:47 demands. In those verses the verb "believe" is in the present tense. The sense is bit different than what one might take from most English translations, which tends to lose the import that saving faith is a continuous, unremitting process in action. John 6:47 is this:

αμην αμην λεγω υμιν ο πιστευων εις εμε εχει ζωην αιωνιον

Translating word by word:

αμην amen; adverb as interjection; meaning "verily," or "certainly," or "Surely"

λεγω lego; verb, present tense, active voice, indicative mode, first person singular; meaning "I keep on saying" or "I constantly say"

υμιν hoomin; pronoun, second person, dative case, plural; meaning "to you-all"

o ho relative pronoun, singular, masculine gender; meaning "who"

πιστευων peest-yoo-ohn; verb, present tense, active voice, participle mode, third person, singular; meaning "he . . . (is) perpetually believing" or "he . . . continually (has) faith"

εις ice; preposition; when followed by the accusative meaning "in" or "into" or "on the basis of"

εμε ehmeh; pronoun, first person, accusative, singulsr; means "me"

εχει ekhayee; verb, present tense, active voice, indicative mode, third person singular; meaning "he constantly has" or "he continually possesses"

ζωην dzoh-ayn; noun, accusative case, feminine gender, singular, anarthrous; meaning "absolute life" or "real sentient existence"

αιωνιον ah-ee-oh-nee-awn; adjective, accusative case, feminine gender, singular; meaning eternal" or "everlasting" or "perpetual" or "without end"

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The sense of this verse is correctly interpreted as follows:

"Most surely, I say unto you-all, (he) who persistently without ceasing has faith in me perpetually possesses absolute sentient existence throughout the ages without end."

That is what the reconciliation transaction is all about, all of my sins conferred to and paid for by Him, in exchange for The Father to impute all His Beloved Son's righteousness to me, a born-anew believer-disciple. In it I can no more reverse the spiritual birth than my physical birth. Both are done deals.
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Elsie, rejection of the "once saved, saved forever" promise of Jesus should have no place in the thoughts of a regenerated believer. And coloring the rejection of it with pejorative terms does not improve the validity of the denial. Nor is it to be treated comically--this is too serious and central to Biblical doctrine to be dismissed with terms like "the old" and "mantra" that projects a kind of haughty demeanor.

Neither in Jesus' ministry or in that of his apostles do the Scriptures ever show them adopting a supercilious, comical attitude as an aid for the advancement of the Gospel. In fact, the humble Jesus, in inviting His hearers to disciple with Him, took the position:

"Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls" (Mt. 11:29 AV).

Now, what kind of rest would that be if it was only offered as a temporary condition, if somehow I could later on descend to some level of ignoring His standards that would send me to Hell and the Lake of Fire?

In fact, though you often criticize the Roman Catholic viewpoint, the claim that a true believer could ignore the indwelling Holy Spirit and lose his salvation puts you squarely in their camp, along with every other Arminianist, doesn't it?

Come to grips with this, man!

237 posted on 11/21/2017 5:18:59 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1; Elsie
re:

". . . I say unto you-all . . ."

better and more grammatically put:

". . . I keep on telling you . . ."

238 posted on 11/21/2017 5:29:28 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1
Elsie, rejection of the "once saved, saved forever" promise of Jesus should have no place in the thoughts of a regenerated believer. And coloring the rejection of it with pejorative terms does not improve the validity of the denial.

And yet when I read it one way; and actually using the bible to back up my understanding; I get quite a push back.


...Help My Unbelief...

Mark 9:24

239 posted on 11/21/2017 9:40:31 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: imardmd1
In fact, though you often criticize the Roman Catholic viewpoint, the claim that a true believer could ignore the indwelling Holy Spirit and lose his salvation puts you squarely in their camp, along with every other Arminianist, doesn't it?

It seems that you need validation of your claims here.

240 posted on 11/21/2017 9:43:01 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: imardmd1
In fact, though you often criticize the Roman Catholic viewpoint...

And I do it using Scripture; not what I think it means or what some OTHER Prot has written about it.

I'm of the camp of, "... turn the lion loose and let him defend himself..."

241 posted on 11/21/2017 9:44:28 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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