Replies

imardmd1: God hates both Sin and sinners. (Post #45)

metmom: Still waiting for the Scripture that states that God hates sinners. (Post #100)

daniel1212: Because God hates sinners then Israel was marked for destruction. But because He yet loved them,. (Post #108)

There are some incidents we ought not to forget, while formulating our list of what God hates, For instance:

o The Flood

Gen 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh:
yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Gen 6:5-7 AV:
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the
earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his
heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth,
and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created
from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the
creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth
me that I have made them.

>> God so regretted the world, that He destroyed every land animal, including man, save enough creatures to repopulate it including only eight humans of faith in Him. Didn't He hate the obstinately oppositionally defiant human subjects enough to destroy them all? <<

o Esau versus Jacob, before they even were born:

Mal 1:2-4
I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast
thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the
LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage
waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return
and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of
hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they
shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people
against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.

Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Hebrews 12:14-17
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no
man shall see the Lord:
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God;
lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and
thereby many be defiled;
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau,
who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have
inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no
place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

>> Esau and his descendants of Edom became The Jews' enemy perpetually to this day because Jacob received the great blessing of Isaac that went from generation to generation, and the heritage of the Messiah, the Savior with it. The hatred of The God has followed the Edomites ever since. <<

o Regarding Ephraim, who was designated as the head of the Northern Kingdom of ten tribes of Israel that separated from Rehoboam/Judah and became the bitter enemy of Judah(Christ):

Hos 9:11-17:
As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird,
from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception.
Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave
them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to
them when I depart from them!
Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place:
but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a
miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them:
for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of
mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are
revolters.
Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear
no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay
even the beloved fruit of their womb.
My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken
unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations.

>> Where are those ten tribes now, which earned God's hatred for all the time until the great tribulation? Dan is not mentioned even among the twelve tribes of the 144,000 mentioned in Rev. 7:4-8 (the tribe of Ephraim through primogeniture was finally restored and reconstituted as "the tribe of Joseph.") <<

o The Revolt of Korah, Dathan, Abiram, and their conspirators:

Numbers 16
I am not going to copy all this in, but here is one selection:
Num 16:27,31-33
So they gat up from the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and
Abiram, on every side: and Dathan and Abiram came out, and
stood in the door of their tents, and their wives, and
their sons, and their little children.
. . .
And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all
these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and
their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah,
and all their goods.
They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive
into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they
perished from among the congregation.

>> Korah and his associates tainted the whole congregation, and not only they and their families, but thousands more of their adherents died for their sinfulness because Jehovah hated what they were doing, and them. Remember, they were already under condemnation, and the consequences were being staved off by close obedience to the ordinances of the Law, which they trid to lay aside. <<

*********

There's more (Ananias & Sapphira, Simon the magician, etc.) but I don't want to waste more of your and my time to prove the point. God hates all sin, as well as some deliberate practitioners of it who in His ability looking into the future, were not going to change in their passive or active aggressiveness against His sovereignty.

One proper definition of the meaning of agape (translated as love or charity) is this:

"Agape love is the sovereign preference of one, above self and others."

And if I may apply that to the hate that proceeds out of God's righteousness, perhaps this might be expressed as:

"God's miseo hatred is the sovereign detestation of those who unceasingly without end prefer self and sin above righteousness."

Apart from The Christ, that is us. So to cap it off, all you need for an example of how much God hates Sin, sinfulness, and the inherently committed practitioners of it, is the picture of the human personification of one who bore our sins in His Body, hanging on the tree of torture, who cried out in agony of separation from and rejection of His Father God, "Eli, Eli! Lama sabachthani!" as the Might God increased the pressure to full bore.

Our Redeemer received there all the celestial fury of God's righteous wrath that we rightly and fully deserve. He paid the price for all creatures that they might be saved.

But now look at this: For those who refuse to accept that free-to-them gift of the complete remission of sins through faith in his blood, the price that He paid on the Cross will be exacted from them in the Lake of Fire, in my truly humble opinion.

So, don't overdo the compassion thing when chastening is fit. A sugary compassion won't be respected or accepted as genuine. Jesus bore The Mighty God's vengeance that was due me, for which I do not know how to be grateful enough. But I am His, and He is mine. When He comes back for good, He's going to clean house, if I understand the Apocalypse correctly. Upsetting money-changers' tables will be the least of the sanitizing project. Actually, blood will flow. Not His then.

I hope this satisfies your wait on this topic.

=========

Christ Liveth In Me

1.

Once far from God and dead in sin,
No light my heart could see;
But in God's Word the light I found,
Now Christ liveth in me.

Chorus:

Christ liveth in me,
Christ liveth in me,
Oh! what a salvation this,
That Christ liveth in me.

2.

As rays of light from yonder sun,
The flow'rs of earth set free,
So life and light and love came forth
From Christ living in me.

3.

As lives the flow'r within the seed,
As in the cone the tree,
So, praise the God of truth and grace,
His Spirit dwelleth in me.

4.

With longing all my heart is filled,
That like Him I may be,
As on the wondrous tho't I dwell
That Christ liveth in me!

-----

(Maj.) Daniel W. Whittle
1840 - 1901

God hates all sin, as well as some deliberate practitioners of it who in His ability looking into the future, were not going to change in their passive or active aggressiveness against His sovereignty.

No, its all or nothing as regards being objects of abhorrence and wrath, yet love despite this.

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) (Ephesians 2:3-5) .

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, (Titus 3:3-4)

John MacArthur, one of the better contemporary Bible teachers today though a Calvinist and not without fault, says on this,

Can God sincerely love those whom He does not intervene to save?

British Baptist leader Erroll Hulse, dealing with this very question, has written,

How can we say God loves all men when the psalms tell us He hates the worker of iniquity (Ps. 5:5)? How can we maintain that God loves all when Paul says that He bears the objects of His wrath, being fitted for destruction, with great patience (Rom. 9:22)? Even more how can we possibly accept that God loves all men without exception when we survey the acts of God’s wrath in history? Think of the deluge which destroyed all but one family. Think of Sodom and Gomorrah. With so specific a chapter as Romans [1,] which declares that sodomy is a sign of reprobation, could we possibly maintain that God loved the population of the two cities destroyed by fire? How can we possibly reconcile God’s love and His wrath? Would we deny the profundity of this problem? (Erroll Hulse, “The Love of God for All Mankind,” Reformation Today [Nov–Dec 1983], 18–19).

Yet Hulse realizes that if we take Scripture at face value, there is no escaping the conclusion that God’s love extends even to sinners whom He ultimately will condemn. “The will of God is expressed in unmistakable terms,” Hulse writes. “He has no pleasure in the destruction and punishment of the wicked” (Ez. 18:32; 33:11). Hulse also cites Matthew 23:37, where Jesus weeps over the city of Jerusalem, then says, “We are left in no doubt that the desire and will of God is for man’s highest good, that is his eternal salvation through heeding the gospel of Christ.” (Ibid., 21–22)

It is crucial that we accept the testimony of Scripture on this question, for as Hulse points out,

We will not be disposed to invite wayward transgressors to Christ, or reason with them, or bring to them the overtures of the gospel, unless we are convinced that God is favorably disposed to them. Only if we are genuinely persuaded that He will have them to be saved are we likely to make the effort. If God does not love them it is hardly likely that we will make it our business to love them. Especially is this the case when there is so much that is repulsive in the ungodliness and sinfulness of Christ-rejecters. (Ibid., 18)

Biblically, we cannot escape the conclusion that God’s benevolent, merciful love is unlimited in extent. He loves the whole world of humanity. This love extends to all people in all times. It is what Titus 3:4 refers to as “the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind.” God’s singular love for the elect quite simply does not rule out a universal love of sincere compassion—and a sincere desire on God’s part to see every sinner turn to Christ. - https://www.gty.org/library/questions/QA193/does-god-love-whom-he-does-not-save

And contrary to the premise that conveying God's hatred of sin and thus properly to the sinner is opposed to conveying His love for the same, in upholding the holiness and justice of God and the thus need for His mercy, and showing His unconditional love toward sinners, no less than the revivalist Jonathan Edwards preaches in his most famous sermon (read in monotone voice),

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you were suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God’s hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell...

Many are daily coming from the east, west, north and south; many that were very lately in the same miserable condition that you are in, are now in a happy state, with their hearts filled with love to him who has loved them, and washed them from their sins in his own blood, and rejoicing in hope of the glory of God. How awful is it to be left behind at such a day! To see so many others feasting, while you are pining and perishing! To see so many rejoicing and singing for joy of heart, while you have cause to mourn for sorrow of heart, and howl for vexation of spirit! How can you rest one moment in such a condition? Are not your souls as precious as the souls of the people at Suffield, where they are flocking from day to day to Christ? - SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF AN ANGRY GOD by the Jonathan Edwards A Sermon Preached at Enfield, July 8th, 1741: https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/edwards_jonathan/Sermons/Sinners.cfm