i thought they were battery powered, wasn't aware you needed engine start to use the radio and it depends on how bad you need assistance to keep you from sinking
Posted on 06/25/2017 7:21:19 PM PDT by TXnMA
By: Sam LaGrone
The crew of the guided-missile destroyer that was struck by a merchant ship on Friday off the coast of Japan fought to save the ship for an hour before the first calls went out for help, Japanese investigators now believe.
According to the current operational theory of Japanese investigators, the deadly collision between USS Fitzgerald (DDG-62) and the Philippine-flagged merchant ship ACX Crystal knocked out the destroyer’s communications for an hour, while the four-times-larger merchant ship was unaware of what it hit until it doubled back and found the damaged warship, two sources familiar with the ongoing Japanese investigation told USNI News on Wednesday.
Investigators now think Crystal was transiting to Tokyo on autopilot with an inattentive or asleep crew when the merchant vessel struck a glancing blow on the destroyer’s starboard side at about 1:30 AM local time on Friday. When the crew of Crystal realized they had hit something, the ship performed a U-turn in the shipping lane and sped back to the initial site of the collision at 18 knots, discovered Fitzgerald, and radioed a distress call to authorities at about 2:30 AM. U.S. Navy officials initially said the collision occurred at around the time of the distress call at 2:30 AM.
Meanwhile, when Crystal’s port bow hit Fitzgerald, the warship was performing a normal transit off the coast of Japan, USNI News understands. Above the waterline, the flared bow of Crystal caved in several spaces in the superstructure, including the stateroom of commanding officer Cmdr. Bryce Benson.
The impact not only ripped a hole in the steel superstructure in the stateroom but also shifted the contents and shape of the steel so Benson was “squeezed out the hull and was outside the skin of the ship,” a sailor familiar with the damage to the ship told USNI News. “He’s lucky to be alive.”
Fitzgerald sailors had to bend back the door of the stateroom to pluck Benson from the side of the ship and bring him inside. He and two other sailors were later evacuated from the ship via a Japanese helicopter to a Navy hospital at Yokosuka.
Pictures of Benson’s stateroom from the door show the steel bent back to reveal open air, and a photo of the ship’s exterior pier-side shows almost the entire stateroom was crushed.
Meanwhile, below decks, the glancing blow of Crystal’s bulbous bow had ripped a 10-feet-by-10-feet to 14-feet-by-14-feet hole below the waterline of the ship, flooding a machinery space the berthing area that was home to about half of the crew, the sailor said.
Over the weekend, U.S. 7th Fleet commander Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin confirmed the spaces that were affected by the collision.
“Three compartments were severely damaged,” Aucoin said at the Saturday press conference. “One machinery room and two berthing areas — berthing areas for 116 of the crew.”
The seven sailors who died aboard were sealed in the berthing area behind a watertight door as the ship’s company fought to keep the ship afloat, according to a description of events the Navy told the family of Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., according to The Associated Press. It’s yet unclear if the ship’s watch had time to sound the collision alarm or call general quarters before Crystal hit the destroyer.
In addition to the damage to the spaces, the collision knocked out Fitzgerald’s communications for the better part of an hour. At about the same time the crew was able to reactivate their backup Iridium satellite communications to radio for help, Crystal arrived on the scene and called in its own distress call, the sailor told USNI News.
investigators are being tight-lipped about details of the investigation, even inside the service. However, information USNI News learned from the Japan Coast Guard investigation indicates Fitzgerald was operating normally when the collision occurred, raising questions more questions regarding why Benson wasn’t on the bridge when a contact was so close to the destroyer.
On Monday, U.S 7th Fleet began a flag officer-led Judge Advocate General Manual (JAGMAN) investigation to determine the facts of the collision, as well as a separate U.S. Navy safety investigation. The U.S. Coast Guard will take lead in a maritime casualty investigation.
As for the ship, five days after collision active damage control efforts are ongoing to prevent further damage to the hull. The force of Crystal’s impact combined with the flood not only dented but twisted the ship’s hull. Crews are continuing to pump water in and out of the ship to keep Fitzgerald stable.
Naval Sea Systems Command is now assessing if the ship can be repaired in Japan or would have to be transported to the U.S. for repairs.
While investigation and repairs are ongoing, the ship’s crew has been given time away from the ship in an attempt to recover from the collision. The burden of ships’ watches is being shared by other crews on the Yokosuka waterfront, Navy officials told USNI News on Wednesday. Both Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson and Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Steve Giordano both visited Yokosuka to speak with Fitzgerald sailors and their families.
“.....fought to save the ship for an hour before the first calls went out for help,....”
This suggests that EVERYONE was soooooo busy trying to save the ship that they didn’t have time to send out a MADAY. /s
The radiomen and communications people were too busy manning the pumps. /s
In all their training they forgot to assign someone to send out an SOS. /s
Man, I never even thought of using the sat phone or a radio in a helicopter, my bad. /s
WOW, I mean how unlikely that when the container ship RAMMED the Fitzgerald that it was EXACTLY right smack dab in the Captain’s quarters? It was almost as if it was on purpose.
The Navy will not admit that their ship (and by extension, ALL their ships) can be disabled by an electronic device (EMP?).
BULLSHIRT!
I would agree, face value only. Odd that Crystal would try to raise the Fitzgerald with a flashing light. This is something that commercial mariners very seldom use. She was suppose to have had bridge to bridge radio (channel 13) on in her bridge. At sea, while on watch, I have been contacted many times, by commercial ships, on this radio net. But in 25 years in the Navy, I have only seen 1 commercial vessel ever use a flashing light.
USS Eldridge (DE-173)
I would like you guys to know from my personal experience that being in a collision at sea that puts the very survival of your ship in question, for an 18 year old, is a very traumatic experience. And I’m no snowflake.
I would like you guys to know from my personal experience that being in a collision at sea that puts the very survival of your ship in question, for an 18 year old, is a very traumatic experience. And I’m no snowflake.
You sure are posting a lot of accurate and clearly thought out things today. You must be new to the internet. I should warn you that is not how we do things here. You definitely should stop it because it is very confusing. I go to the internet for my daily dose of innuendo, speculation, misconceptions , and out right lies and you are messing that up!
I guess we’ll eventually find out. I’m sure they’ll investigate this one fully.
There will be an answer, but just not fast enough for us arm chair detectives.
i thought they were battery powered, wasn't aware you needed engine start to use the radio and it depends on how bad you need assistance to keep you from sinking
~~
No speculation, but observation based on data:
"Hard to starboard" = a maximum course change of 12 degrees (70 degrees to 88 degrees...) -- after ten (10) minutes with rudder hard over???
(That's from memory; I think the actual data will look even worse -- back later...)
"The container ship steered hard to starboard (right) to avoid the warship, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to a copy of Captain Ronald Advincula's report"
~~~~~~~~~~~~
TXnMA: "MOOSAKE!!!"*
Here's the AIS data (16:30 Z [UTC] = 1:30 a.m. Local):
For at least seven minutes after his '10 minutes before collision', the ACX Crystal maintained its 70-degree course -- and, then, only diverted 12 degrees. That's "hard to starboard" -- for ten minutes???
If "Captain Ronald Advincula" put such a whopping big lie re his conning of the ACX Crystal in his report, why should anyone believe this?
"...the cargo ship's captain said the ACX Crystal had signalled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald "suddenly" steamed on to a course to cross its path."
Why, indeed????
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
("MOOSAKE"": Intoxicating drink made from milk. -- pronounced, "Moose-Hockey"...)
"...according to a copy of Captain Ronald Advincula's report to Japanese ship owner Dainichi Investment Corporation that was seen by Reuters."
Curious in itself. I can't imagine how much Dainichi would want to keep the information private considering the litigation that is sure to follow, not to mention the possibility of criminal charges against either ship's captains. So somewhere between Capt. Advincula's completed report and Dainichi, Reuters managed to get a peek. OK... let's go with that.
The English Reuters article gives a garbled picture of what happened. Translation issues? Editing? No idea, but I found a better account from a poster estarzinger post #421 on CruiserForum (here):
Perhaps a one-step better translation . . . .* "This is my English translation of the same report by Reuters in Japan in Japanese.ACX Crystal captain wrote to the company that while cruising to Tokyo bay at 18 knots, TWO watch crews of ACX found the destroyer on 40 degree port side 3NM in distance around 1:15AM. 5 minutes later the destroyer suddenly started moving and continued on their collision course. While manually steering, ACX gave caution to the navy ship by turning on/off the light without any reaction. then decided to take hard starboard turn for collision avoidance but both ships crashed around 1:30AM.* Takeshi from Yokohama"
Probably still not perfectly accurate representation of details from the actual captain's report
Then from Presbyterian Reporter@76:
“Note WAN HAI 266 was to the port side of USS Fitzgerald. Sailing parallel to ACX Crystal with USS Fitzgerald sandwiched. When ACX Crystal A/C to 070 then minutes later WAN HAI also A/C to 070. It seems that USS Fitzgerald does NOT change course and stays on track.....”
So one scenario that might make some sense (given the above as best we know) goes something like this:
1:15 local - Crystal, Wan Hai and Fitzgerald all traveling along Tokyo inbound shipping lane heading 60°. Wan Hai off Crystal's port side, Fitzgerald 'between' but ahead of both ships (40° to port of Crystal). No potential conflicts as all ships are moving same direction.
1:17 local - Crystal, then Wan Hai both adjust heading to 70° to follow established shipping lane. Fitzgerald does not, so it begins converging with the Crystal, but is still 3nm away at this point.
1:20 local - (10 min before collision) the Crystal notices the Fitzgerald getting closer, either visually, via radar or both. Nothing to panic about, but they start plotting (or use their ARPA) to see if there will be an actual conflict given both ship's speed and heading. The Fitzgerald would be doing the same given the Crystal's new heading. (I think the 'suddenly started moving' wording regarding the Fitzgerald's movement is just a translation error - maybe 'began converging')
>1:20 local - Crystal determines the two ships will eventually come too close (in approx. 10 min) so calls Fitzgerald to coordinate - standard operating procedure, even though the Crystal is stand-on starboard ship. They either were not able to contact the Fitzgerald or did and something was miss-communicated. The Crystal did not feel the need to change speed or course yet for whatever reason.
<1:29 local Crystal eventually resorts to flashing light to catch Fitzgerald's attention, which apparently failed as well. Should have used collision horn as well, but no mention of that. At that point, Crystal's captain figures Fitzgerald doesn't see them or still isn't changing course, so orders hard starboard turn at the last minute to avoid collision.
1:30 local - collision.
note: 1 knot = 1 nautical mile per hour. The Crystal was traveling at 18 knots, or 3nm every 10 min. If the Fitzgerald was 3nm at 40° 10 minutes before hand and moving faster than the Crystal, then they could certainly have crossed paths at 1:30. I'll leave the maffs to someone else.
Nothing is 'proven' by the above, but at least we have some agreement between AIS, Wan Hai report (from Presbyterian Reporter) and a translation of a bit more detailed Japanese version of the Reuters article. It's a likely scenario given what little information we have, and would put the Crystal turning at the last minute, not 10 minutes out. That (in my mind) makes a lot more sense. We'll find out what was happening on the Fitzgerald in about six months from the US Navy (if they leave anything in their report un-redacted).
Of course, this whole scenario relies too heavily on a confidential internal company report from the captain that Reuters somehow managed to see, so there's that.
Thanks
Aaand... I completely messed up the headings. The ships would have been heading 070° initially and turned to 060° to stay in the shipping lane.
You seem to have a good idea on the location of the three ships. What do you think are the chances that the watch on the Fitzgerald saw the second tanker, Wan Hai, and was moving to avoid that while remaining unaware of the Crystal and that he was cutting across in front of it?
While I have a hard time believing the crew on the Fitzgerald was so incompetent that they could have missed a supertanker if that were all there was to it, is it possible that they were completely distracted by the other ship? That starts to at least make some sense.
I also believe that’s how the Porter ended up in a collision a few years back. In avoiding the one they saw first, they ended up colliding with the one they discovered next. In this case, maybe they never saw the Crystal at all, or at least the bridge never got the word in time.
By the way, thanks for attempting to sort out the captain’s report. It makes much more sense that way.
One question: Does it seem reasonable that the Crystal would be hit so hard that it turned 90 degrees, then went back on course and left the collision site for several minutes before turning back? Surely with a 90 degree turn, they’d have known there was a collision, so why leave the area? Any reasonable answer possible here, other than getting out of Dodge and later reconsidering? And if they had to know they collided, why no distress call for an hour?
All from the accounts others have posted. I'm better with things that fly.
"...What do you think are the chances that the watch on the Fitzgerald saw the second tanker, Wan Hai, and was moving to avoid that while remaining unaware of the Crystal and that he was cutting across in front of it?"
Based on the position of the ships described above, I would think the Fitzgerald was well ahead, to right of the Wan Hai and moving faster, i.e., if Fitz was 40° ahead and to the left of the Crystal, then it would have been ahead and to the right of the Wan Hai.
When the Wan Hai turned from 70° to 60°, it would have been behind and moving away further left from the Fitzgerald's line of travel. The Fitzgerald (from the description above) sounds like it remained on a 70° heading.
"...While I have a hard time believing the crew on the Fitzgerald was so incompetent that they could have missed a supertanker if that were all there was to it, is it possible that they were completely distracted by the other ship? That starts to at least make some sense..."
This was supposedly a busy shipping lane at what is reported to be the busiest time of the day: early AM ships steaming to scheduled morning berthing times in Tokyo ports and afternoon/evening ships leaving Tokyo ports steaming southwest. The Fitzgerald would have nearly constantly had some targets on its radar moving somewhere in a 20nm or 30nm radius around it. Between computerized course conflict warnings, humans watching the radar blips and other humans eyeballing the horizon, I kind of doubt they were just/merely/only distracted by the Wan Hai.
My useless opinion is that they would have been about as likely to miss the Crystal or be distracted by another ship about as much an air traffic controller would be to miss an aircraft or be distracted by other aircraft on their radar screen. Possible? I suppose, but highly unlikely. This is what they do their entire shift and it's damn important. I have to believe the answer is a bit more complicated than that in ways I don't fully understand - that is, in terms of whatever else goes on on a Navy destroyer's busy bridge.
Commenters on other boards have noted how the gash in the Crystal's bow looks like it was made by the anchor chain being dragged across it at tension. It kind of makes sense that the anchor grabbed the Fitzgerald at one point and was pulled out. The chain cut across the Crystal's bow as the Fitzgerald continued on, eventually dragging the Crystal's bow to the right. Probably dragged the Fitzgerald around a bit before ripping away. No idea if that's even possible - I'll leave that to mariners for comment.
The only reason I bring up the 'anchor snagging' situation above is in the one (unlikely) case where nobody was on the Crystal's bridge, the collision occurred and pushed/dragged the Crystal's bow 90° before the ships untangled. The auto-heading would have presumably steered the Crystal back on it's previous heading (with an anchor in tow). That would explain the AIS course changes. The crew would have made it to the Crystal's bridge afterwards and tried to figure out what happened, maybe not seeing the damaged bow immediately.
Mariners say the above is unlikely because a commercial ship's bridge is never unmanned in a busy shipping lane and there are various collision warning alarms that would have sounded if someone was 'asleep'. There's also emergency stops that kick in if a collision is detected. So there's no way, according to merchant mariners, the Crystal would just run on 'autopilot', ram another ship and resume course like nothing had happened. That sounds reasonable to me.
That still leaves the peculiar track of the Crystal unexplained. If it was under manual control and the ship did turn at the last minute but was unable to avoid the Fitzgerald, then they would have stopped immediately after the collision. I can't imagine any scenario where they would have resumed course/speed for nearly a half an hour before deciding to turn back - no matter what was going on on the Crystal itself.
So as unlikely as the first scenario is ('autopilot' ramming Fitz then resuming course/speed), that one - at face value - seems to explain the AIS track. Once again though, I can't possibly claim to know anything about what these crews would do in this situation - there was probably much more going on that we don't know yet. Neither explanation makes much sense, so I'm inclined to think both are wrong (or incomplete as we understand them so far).
"...And if they had to know they collided, why no distress call for an hour?..."
This may have been one of those 'lost in translation' things. If you read the articles carefully, the Japanese Coast Guard says they were not notified until 2:20. It doesn't even say if the Crystal's crew notified them. One of the earlier reports said the Crystal notified their shipping company first for direction, and then the shipping company itself eventually notified the Japanese CG after verifying with the USN. Too many inconsistent reports for now - I think we'll have to wait to find out how the 'reporting' chain actually happened.
The media makes it sound like the greatest crime of all here was that the Crystal didn't report the collision the minute it happened. FWIW, an aircraft pilot's priorities in an emergency are to aviate (keep the plane flying), navigate and THEN communicate - in that order. You don't grab the mic and start blabbing away to someone the second your engine falls off. That's not the immediate priority. I can't imagine a mariner would act any differently. In the event of a collision, they are worried about other things far more important than 'notifying the Coast Guard' who are too far away to be of much help anyway. I wouldn't read too much into the 'one hour delay' until we have a better picture of what happened.
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