Posted on 11/05/2016 7:52:44 PM PDT by CorporateStepsister
I'm interested in debating if whether or not Judas and Pontius Pilate ended up in Hell. Despite being considered the most evil men in hisotry, since they were doing God's will in causing Christ to be crucified, surely they would in fact be looked on with favor by God and not condemned to Hell for eternity.
Funeral are for the living. We have a need for the closure they bring.
You do realize, don’t you, that Scripture declares plainly and repeatedly, “God is love”? 1 John 4:8 & 16
Your analysis is faulty because it overlooks a key fact: although God still loves the condemned, He honors their choice to live apart from Him--and from His loving protection.
Although these condemned people have chosen to forego the eternal joys of heaven, because of His love for them God doesn’t want any of them to suffer any more than is absolutely necessary, while honoring their free-will wish to avoid His presence forever. Yet He knows His absence would be absolutely catastrophic for them, because He would no longer be present to care for them and protect them as He does now—and He does still love them. Moreover, they are now permanently surrounded (by choice!) by the very people, not to mention by powerful and malicious demons who became the vilest unrepentant beings who ever lived, and these people whom God still loves are now completely defenseless against them! How does a just and loving and wise God solve that for them?
By making them suffer just enough to prevent them from making any other resident suffer unnecessarily. Hitler and Stalin and Vlad the Impaler, etc., are surrounded by roaring flames which burn them horribly every time they lunge toward another, and because of the demonstrably profound evil in their hearts that is often indeed. And Satan rates his very own entire ocean of fire. But your sweet unbelieving Aunt Minnie, who never (well, hardly ever) even hurt a fly, and who did so very much to help others (even if it was for selfish reasons), needs only a few hot coals to contain her from inflicting her odious home remedies on her unwilling coinhabitants. It’s a proportional solution based on the evil that has grown up in each one’s heart.
Amazingly, therefore, hell’s eternal suffering turns out to be God’s just and loving and wise way of continuing to bless even those who refuse His best and most wonderful blessings—just as we should expect if the God Whom we’ve decided to serve really is just, loving, and wise.
Two nice posts, #70 & 72. Well-reasoned and -stated, and very appropriate to the discussion.
I do not believe my premise is flawed, in fact I do agree with much of what you have said.
You stated: “Because of His love for them God doesn’t want any of them to suffer any more than is absolutely necessary, while honoring their free-will wish to avoid His presence forever.”
This is perfectly valid reasoning; however it is fails in a very important point. That being, that it assumes that Satan can break what Christ cannot correct. Sinful man, with eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear were and are still no match for Satan fell, Yet Christ our Lord and Saviour cannot correct mans sinful nature. That my friend is flawed.
I would also add another thing. Love is Perfectly Complete. Think how you would feel knowing that a brother, sister, mother, father, son or daughter is burning alive because you could not convinnce them to come to Christ. Would you not want to trade places with them? I know I would, sinner that I am, I know that I have no more heavenly right of place than anyone else. I am grateful that God did give me eyes and ears that can see and hear a little. Yes, knowing the Love that GOd has for me and the many many ways he has demonstrated it, I would trade places gladly.
But, there is still another point. You were punished as a child no doubt. I certainly was. I learned by that over time. The punishment did not last forever, but the correction certainly did. Look up the REAL meaning behind punishment in GREEK and you will discover “Correction” at the root.
So when we read that the PUNISHMENT will last forever, the real meaning is the Correction will last forever; who will undo it?
Of course the Scriptures speak of gnashing of teeth and much resistance to change, yet we must be careful of even this understanding. Jesus made it very clear that those who were given little (deaf and blind) the punishment will be light because little was expected; however, the greater the Spiritual insight, the greater the expectation. It is so called lofty Christians that will be screaming the most.
Scriptures state that no one will put out the fire, yet like any fire (SPIRITUAL NOT PHYSICAL) it will only burn while there is fuel available. Once exhausted the cleanse will be complete.
Yet you missed my question: How could any one being experiencing the figurative flames of Gehenna before being Judged. Who sent them without being accused; ie. The book of Life has yet to be opened, or do you believe that it already has been? No judging, just open honest discussion.
"Cannot" doesn't apply. "Chooses not" does. God honors their choice. When people determinedly choose self-will rather than repentance, He lets them do so.
Not true, you are judging God from flawed sinful nature. Just because you would be perfectly okay for your kids to do what they want and suffer the consequences (bet you are not) Does not mean in any way shape or form that our LOVING FATHER would or even could do the same.
Adam and Eve had no concept of sin, no more so than a toddler being told that if they touched the cookies on the coffee table, then they could kiss college good bye.
It might be argued that the toddler might spend years earning forgiveness and the parent might relent, but this is apples and oranges. Adam and Eve had SATAN almost one on one driving them further and further from God. Did they have Scriptures to guide them; preachers whom they could ask? Of course not. What were they to do? They knew no better.
Do not miss the obvious, the real lesson here is for us today. Jesus said for ‘us’ to be perfect as God himself is.
Perfect is perfection; it is not leaving loose ends (billions burning in some fanciful fire to glee of pharisee like Christians. Jesus called such as these: Snakes and Vipers and children of Satan.
If you were perfect, you would see even in the most evil of humans a lost and misguided child. You would also see that they were deaf and blind, having no chance to ever find their way home even if they knew they had one. You see perfection is not a title, it is action. Yes, Faith with out works is dead just as Love without Loving actions is dead.
If we as children of God do not look at these same reprobates through the same Love filled eyes then where is the love? Where is God?
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